Report of the Royal Commission appointed to inquire into the administrative procedures for controlling danger to man through the use as food of the meat and milk of tuberculous animals.
- Great Britain. Royal Commission on Tuberculosis
- Date:
- 1898
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Report of the Royal Commission appointed to inquire into the administrative procedures for controlling danger to man through the use as food of the meat and milk of tuberculous animals. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.
138/502 (page 98)
![Dr. in cutting through, the flesh you get it in the glands— Marsden. ^he pope's eye, the large gland in the centre of the leg an7]897 or round of beef—that is a gland frequently affected * ' and that would not be touched by any process of roasting, and you would cut a slice right through it. 2156. Could you say that you get tuberculosis in that gland, in what is termed the pope's eye, with- out any other manifestation of tubei'culosis which would otherwise have led you to seize the carcase ?— I cannot give you any special instance off-hand, but from my experience of other glauds, as I have said, you may often get a carcase infected in all the glands which shows no sign outside. I conclude by analogy that that giand might lm affected as well as any other, and I have seen it affected. 2157. You know that Dr. Sidney Martin made a large number of experiments for the Commission ?— Yes. 2158. Iu summarising his results, and his con- clusions, he reported as follows:— It is quite evident from the experiments just reviewed that the meat from cows suffering from a mild or moderate degree of tuberculosis does not give tuberculosis to animals by feeding. Do you agree with that ?—I cannot agree with that altogether. It may be perfectly true as far as experiments show, but I cannot think it would be actually the case in ordinary inspection of meat. I do not mean to say that 1 do not believe the experiments of Dr. Martin ; I do not imply that in any way. 2159. Can you form any opinion as to whether your modified action since the issue of the report of the first Commission on tuberculosis has removed the objection of butchers to the stringency of the examination carried out in Birkenhead ?—No, they are still of the same opinion; but the fact of the matter is that, as shown in the return I gave you, the number of animals which they bring affected with the disease is so small that we have not the same amount of trouble with them. In point of fact they can largely select their stock if they try, and they do it to a large extent in our abattoirs, and the result is that we have not the same amount of trouble with them. They know precisely what we shall seize and what we shall not, and they do not contest it. 2160. How do you account for the extreme excel- lence as regards tuberculosis of the cattle imported from Ireland as contrasted with those from Cheshire and Wales ?—You must know that those cattle which are brought to our butchers from Ireland are not the ordinary run of cattle, they are prime selected animals ; all those butchers are very high class butchers, and consequently they are really in their case picked animals; they are some of the finest animals that come into the abattoirs. I therefore do not take them as a sample of Irish cattle, and that is why I do not refer to them as Irish cattle, but must take them as out of the general run of Irish cattle. 2161. Personally, I have heard that the best Irish cattle are kept for Irish consumption, and that it is the second class that are exported; does your view bear that out ?—-I have no experience of Irish cattle, except those that come to us, and they are some of the finest animals that I have seen. 2162. It is said that those they keep are better still ?—I do not think so. 2163. There cannot be much complaint about tuber- culosis with regard to them ?—I do not think so from what I have seen of the Irish cattle brought to us. 2164. (Chairman.) You have not said anything about Scotch cattle?—We do not get any Scotch cattle, or very few Scotch cattle. There might be an odd one in a year, but the number is so small that it would not affect any statistics. I do not think there are more than three in a year. 2165. They go to Liverpool then ?—Yes, very largely. 2166. (Mr. Murphy.) Does the number of tuber- culous cattle that you mentioned represent the number that ycu seized ?—Yes, the number seized. 2167. If you had been stating the total number of tuberculous animals it would be a larger proportion ? —No; in stating those tuberculous animals we have not always seized the whole carcase ; it is where we have seized some part of the carcase, that is to say, where there has been any sign of tuberculosis in either offal or carcase, in the total number given you, that represents the number affected. Then I can give the number of carcases absolutely seized. 2168. Out of the total of 71 that are mentioned in those years, could you state how many would be whole carcases that were seized ?—I thought that I had got it down here, but I do not seem to have it actually with regard to Cheshire and Wales, it would be about two-thirds. 2169. (Chairman.) Perhaps you could add it in your evidence ?—I can do so absolutely. I have the return made out of the number of carcases, and I thought I had it here. I find that 30 cases were taken, in the other cases only the offal or other parts. 2170. v (Mr. Murphy.) You referred to the absence of power to cut a carcase ?—Ye3. 2171. Do you find that in practice a difficulty, or do the butchers permit you?—I found very great difficulty until within the last 18 months, and now the butchers do permit us, because by allowing us to examine the glands we pass a good deal which we otherwise would have to seize as being in a doubtful condition. Where I find small patches on the body on beef I have felt compelled, if they would not let me examine the glands, to say that it was affected throughout the carcase, and that is my experience, but where they let us do it and we find the glands free they simply remove that bit of the affected portion and we pass the carcase. 2172. What sort of examination could be made of the liver and lungs with regard to tubercle that is deep-seated ?—Of course with regard to the lungs you can feel it by nipping, and my experience is that a liver affected always shows signs on the outside. 2173. So that you think you are able to make all the examination you require without cutting into those organs ?—Yes, we can be absolutely certain, I think, from an outside examination. 2174. Then you spoke of the difficulty of asso- ciating particular viscera with particular carcases ?— Yes, I did. 2175. In the case of the foreign cattle?—Yes; in the Woodside lairage. 2176. You have no power of making regulations ? —No, that rests with the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board, over which we have no control whatever. They entirely control that, and of course it is no interest of theirs to give us facilities in any way. 2177. Have you any private slaughter-houses in Birkenhead ?—We have one and only one. 2178. And that you have no difficulty with ?—It is a very well-conducted one. 'The owner is one of the best butchers in the town, and our experience is that if he had anything that was in the slightest degree wrong, he would send to us to ask us to look at it. He is one of the men who buys Irish cattle of the kind of which I have spoken. We have never had any trouble with him, and during the whole five years I think I have never seized but one carcase from him, and then he called us in to look at it as soon as he saw it was affected and asked us to examine it thoroughly. 2179. Does any quantity of dead meat come into Birkenhead ?—No, we get very little #ead meat, that all goes to Liverpool. Of course we get the frozen meat in the shops. 2180. And that is inspected ?—It is inspected in Liverpool before it comes to us, and then we inspect it when is gets across to our side of the water. 2181. When it is in the shops ?—Yes. 2182. You have no central station to which the dead meat is taken ?—No, we have to rely on the vigilance of the inspector, and I am happy to say that that vigilance has got sufficiently noted, so that they do not run the risk. He is really a very effective](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b21365076_0138.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
