Report of the Royal Commission appointed to inquire into the administrative procedures for controlling danger to man through the use as food of the meat and milk of tuberculous animals.
- Great Britain. Royal Commission on Tuberculosis
- Date:
- 1898
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Report of the Royal Commission appointed to inquire into the administrative procedures for controlling danger to man through the use as food of the meat and milk of tuberculous animals. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.
88/502 (page 48)
![Mr. 917. All that you condemned ?—Yes, they w ere S. J. Rayment, cases in which I had not the slightest hesitation in M.H C.V.S. condemning them on post-mortem examination, 7 918. Would you consider it very desirable that the 26 bo\. ± . eomp]aint which is made of the want of uniformity in nspection and its results should be met if possible; the allegation constantly is that carcases which would be condemned at one place would escape at another ? —>The same thing might occur to myself. I might pass an animal and consider the carcase, although affected with tuberculosis, perfectly fit for human food, the organs having been removed, and everything removed from the carcase as suggested in the first Report of the Royal Commission, and I take it that it goes without saying that I thoroughly agree with that report. I think it is highly probable that many inspectors might condemn such a carcase. 919. Rut my question really is, do you consider lhat; it is very important that that want of uniformity should be remedied ?—Undoubtedly I do. 920. Do you see any way of doing it ?—Only by training men in such a manner that they all arrive at something like the same opinion. 921. We have been told by one witness that if it had pleuro-pneumonia sufficiently marked when the lungs were cut, he should condemn the carcase ?— Yes. 922. Is that the practice that you would follow ?— No, it is the very opposite ; I should do nothing of the kind, the lung only being affected. 923. Do you see any possible way of arranging such a discrepancy as that ?—No—if the man has not the knowledge of that which is good after slaughter and that which is bad. I hold, of course, that meat is not necessarily unfit for human fond because the animal has been affected to a certain limited extent with pleuro-pneumonia. 924. Rut if affected to such an extent as to interfere with the quality of the meat, what then ?—Then I should condemn it. 925. Then the greatest dependence is placed on the quality of the meat, irrespective of the conditions of the organs ?—Undoubtedly, and that is the only means that any man can judge by, because with the vast majority of the meat sold for consumption in London at the present time there is not the slightest opportunity of seeing any of the viscera. 926. Rut given the opportunity, would you prefer, yourself, to see the animals slaughtered and examine the animals, and then, when the carcase has had sufficient time to cool, come back and examine the carcase ?—Most certainly I should prefer to see the condition of the organs before I condemned any carcase. In many of those animals where the mesen- teric glands only are affected, if they were removed it would be impossible to tell what was the matter with the animals, judging from the carcase alone. 927. You have, of course, to inspect other carcases besides those of cattle ?—Yes. 928. In the case of pigs, do you find tuberculosis very common ?—No, I do not; and I think, about this period last year, I examined for the Roard of Agriculture 2,500 pigs very carefully indeed in respect of swine fever. I opened and examined all the viscera very carefully indeed, and there was only one case where there was any departure from health. 929. Was that in a case of tuberculosis ?—No ; some slight lesion of the intestines. 930. Have you found tuberculosis in the lung of a pig or a sheep, a case of miliary tuberculosis r—A miliary condition of the lung is very uncommon to the sheep. 931. If you found miliary tuberculosis, would you condemn the whole carcase if the carcase were in good condition, would you?—No, I should not think of condemning it. 932. I asked one witness a question, which I pro- pose to repeat to all the meat inspectors who come before us, as to the evidence on which they condemn meat as unfit for human food; I want to find out what is the mental process which they undergo before' they make up their minds that the meat is unfit ?—> The mental process is simply seeing the condition of the meat. 933. The impression that it makes on your mind, that you would not like to eat it ?—No, I beg your pardon. I take it, as a meat inspector, I have to consider not what I should like, because I prefer the best Scotch beef if I can get it; whereas someone else would like to have an inferior quality of meat, and that meat ought not to be condemned, and that never operates ; but the fact of the animal being free from disease, and the tissues in a firm condition, aud the flesh likewise. 934. I do nut mean mere fancy when I say you would not like it, you would be incurring an amount of risk ?—I thought it was giving the effect of what was operating in my mind. 935. No, because you do not explain why, if you see the fat firm and the lean also, you may still consider that meat unfit for food. If you were in the hands of an Old Bailey barrister, he would want to know why you say it is unfit for food ; what evidence you have ?—Honestly, I could give you none. 936. That is what I expected. I do not want to convey the impression that I object to your own way of doing it, but I want to know the grounds on which you say why it is done ?—I could not give you any reason why that meat is unfit, and I know of none. 937. (Chairman.) Is it not the case that you distinguish between meat in a sound condition and meat in a morbid condition ?—Yes. 938. And you class the morbid meat in the morbid condition as unsuitable for food ?—Yes, as unsuitable for food. 939. (Mr. Speir.) You have given us your opinion of the proportion of tuberculous animals as being 19^ per cent, of those slaughtered for pleuro-pneumonia ? —Yes. 940. One other inspector of meat in the City, in passing carcases, suggested something like one per cent. ; on such a figure as that vou would be under the impression that he must have been passing a great many carcases of which the organs have shown tuberculosis ?—I cannot say that they have the opportunity that I have. I have very exceptional circumstances, and I very carefully examine every lung that passes through my hands like a piece of sponge, and when I found tubercle it was returned as a case of tubercle. 941. You would come to the conclusion that a very large proportion of these animals would very likely have had tubercle ?—In a general market ? 942. Yes ?—Judging from the return I have given vou, there must have been something like that. 943. Then provided that a great many have been passed, do not you think that there are many more, where animals are slaughtered under an inspector's eye, which might be used for human food ?—Do I think that many might be used for human food ? 944. Yes, because several inspectors who have been here have given us their opinion, that when they see a carcase on which there is the smallest portion of tuberculous matter they condemn it. You disagree with that ?—Yes, I do. 945. In some of the experiments made by the experts of the previous Commission, in summarising their evidence, they say that it is quite evident that often infection is conveyed from probably the Tubercular matter of the lung, or pleura to the carcase ?—Yes, through the action of the knife. 946. You would be under the impression that the class of animals with the carcases carefully trimmed were quite suitable for food ?—I thoroughly concur with the report of the Commission. 947. And you agree with their suggestion that, if animals were carefully stripped and dipped for four or five minutes in boiling water, practically speaking the risk would be got clear of ?—Entirely so. 948. And you are, apparently, strongly of opinion that gentlemen who have a veterinary surgeon's train-](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b21365076_0088.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
