Appendix to Fourth report of the Commissioners : minutes of evidence, October to December, 1907.

Great Britain. Royal Commission on Vivisection (1906)

Date:: 1907

Catalogue details

Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Appendix to Fourth report of the Commissioners : minutes of evidence, October to December, 1907. Source: Wellcome Collection.

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17] Sir W. 8. Cuurcn, Bart., K.c.B., M.D. Sir W. J. CoLxins, M.P., M.D., F.R.C.8. Sir J. McFapy3fan, M.B. Mr. A. J. Ram, kK.c. Mr. W. H. GaskELL, M.D., F.B.S. Mr. J. Tomxrnson, M.p. Mr. G, Wirson, LL.D., M.D. Captain C. Bieuam, co.m.c. (Secretary). Mr. Joun GLAISTER, M.D., 12819. (Chairman.) You are a Professor of Glasgow University P—I am—Professor of Forensic Medicine and Public Health. 12820. And you have been desired by the Faculty of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow to give evidence here f—I have. 12821. Is that one of the licensing bodies qualified to give diplomas in medicine and surgery P—Yes, and also diplomas in public health. 12822. And you are a Doctor of Medicine yourself, I believe P—I am, of the University of Glasgow. 12823. And you are a Fellow of the Faculty of Physi- c — =_ the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Edin- burgh, and you have other qualifications P—That is so. 12824. Have you yourself ever taken out a licence under the Act?—No, I have not had facilities until now. I have a place which has now been registered in my new buildings, in my new department. I have not done so before, because I had no accommodation for animals, as a matter of fact. Now I have a building which is registered under the Act for the purpose. 12825. (Sir William Collins.) Do you hold a licence? —Not yet; I have not applied for one, . 12826. (Chairman.) Do you propose to do so?—Yes, immediately. 12827. The subject is one that you have studied P— Yes, for 25 years I have been a teacher on the subject. 12828. But you have never had a licence yourself ?— I have never held a licence up till now. 12829. At the same time you are familiar with the Act of Parliament ?—I know it, and I think I know all about the certificates. 12830. And you are familiar with experiments on animals?—Yes, very familiar. I may add that on several occasions I have had to sign the certificates of others. Being one of the statutory certifiers under the Act I have had for some years to act as a signator of the certificates of others. 12831. Have you found any difficulty in carrying out your duties as a certifier under the Act?—No, I have never had any difficulty on the question as to the need for experiments upon animals. Before signing a certifi- cate 1 have always satisfied myself of two things. First, that the applicant was a capable person to perform the experiment ; and, secondly, that the experiments, in called in, and Examined. 12832. And you have always been able to deal satis- factorily with those points ?—Yes. any amendment that you would like to suggest in the Act?—The only suggestion that I would make is this. So far as I am able to see, the certificate “A,” which is usually confined to inoculation and feeding experi- ments, is not large enough for such work as my own, for example. As Medico Legal Examiner to the Crown in Glasgow and the West of Scotland, charged with the. duty of examining post-mortem the bodies of those who die sudden and violent or suspicious deaths, I am required to report to the Crown as to the cause of the death. In some cases the death has been due to poison- ing; it may be from food or ordinary poisons, or more occult poisons, and, if one in Certificate “A” laid one self down to ask for a certain number of experiments, on account of the uncertainty of the amount of work to be done in the year, one might have some difficulty in having the number of animals named in the certificate not exceeded; that is to say, I might require more animals in one year than in another, and if I putdown a certain number, or, if the number were laid down for me by the Home Office, I might not be able to conduct the work. I would like to say further that I under- stand there is a certificate, which has not, I think, been mentioned in the evidence, so far as I have read the three volumes, called “A 2,” which has been issued by the Home Office to a small number of investigators.. I have only seen it scheduled in the last few days, The terms of that certificate would be quite satisfactory to me, inasmuch as the number of experiments is not named, the time of carrying out the work is not laid down, and the range of work would cover allthat I personally would require. 12834. (Mr. Ram.) Have you got a copy of it?—I have only got a copy in writing. 12835. (Sir John McFadyean.) May I ask is it quite the rule that in Certificate A the number of experi- ments is limited P—I cannot say. I have only seen one of these certificates, and the only certificate that I saw did not bear any number of experiments. (Sir Mackenzie Chalmers.) Have you ever applied for a certificate with regard to your duties and been refused ? —Asg I have already explained to his Lordship, I have never applied for a licence or certificate at all, because up till now [ have not had facilities. I have now, and my place is registered, and I am just waiting to get a cemprehensive enough certificate to make an applica tion.