Report of the Royal Commission on the Aged Poor, appointed to consider whether any alterations in the system of Poor Law Relief are desirable, in the case of persons whose destitution is occasioned by incapacity for work resulting from old age, or whether assistance could otherwise be afforded in those cases. Vols I - III [Minutes of evidence taken before the Royal Commission on the Aged Poor. Days 1 to 26. Vol. II.-- Minutes of evidence taken before the Royal Commission on the Aged Poor. Days 27 to 48. With appendix and index. Vol. III.].

Great Britain. Royal Commission on the Aged Poor

Date:: 1895

Credit: Report of the Royal Commission on the Aged Poor, appointed to consider whether any alterations in the system of Poor Law Relief are desirable, in the case of persons whose destitution is occasioned by incapacity for work resulting from old age, or whether assistance could otherwise be afforded in those cases. Vols I - III [Minutes of evidence taken before the Royal Commission on the Aged Poor. Days 1 to 26. Vol. II.-- Minutes of evidence taken before the Royal Commission on the Aged Poor. Days 27 to 48. With appendix and index. Vol. III.]. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

1197/1212 page 1043

$STATE PENSIONS: Mr. Chamberlain's Scheme— cmt. JPossibk Case IV. temporary provisions for present aged desirable, though costly, 12,232-3, 12,583-5, 12,638-42, 12,749-55. Cost and finance of scheme : estimates of cost, 12,234-9; might be roughly 300,000?., if ^\th. of working classes joined, 12,239 ; 5,000,000Z. extreme possible cost on present lines, 12,234,12,606-13 ; but, of course, Pari lament might widen the scheme, 12,276-8 ; does not contomplate more than 2,000,000L at first, to be taken when there is a surplus with- out a new tax, 12,754-60: State fund to he rate-aided, 12,200-1 ; interest calculated at 2^ per cent., with additional ^- for administration, 12,202, 12,209-11, 12,566- 70; higher interest might be paid, 12,239hI'2; advamtage of localising, 12,239, 12,605 : saving of poor law expenditure for aged and widows, &c.; ultimately might be 3,000,000L, 12,234-9, 12,717-29; would be slight for next 30 years, till insurers become aged, 12,614-28. General remarlcs. Education compared, 12,200, 12,278, 12,323, 12,635-7, 12,655-6: would not check charity, 12,327-9; and would encourage thrift, 12,199, 12,257, 12,340-1 ; thriftless and wealthy alone would pay more than they get, 12,257-8 ; would raise character and hope, 12,624, 12,673-80: _ differs from poor law relief in being partly earned and without stigma, test of poverty, or penal conditions, 12,594-602,12,644-6,12,681,12,762: pensioners would be free to work, this would not lower wages, 12,266-7; pension not to be alien- able or liable for debt, 12,274-5 ; poor law re- lief would be no disqualification, 12,297-9 ; and might be given in emergencies after 60 to aid premiums, 12,300: replies to objections raised to scheme, limited inducement, 12,243-7 ; diflSculty of identifica- tion, 12,251, 12,605; cost of administration, 12,215-7, 12,234^2, 12,250, 12,566-70; uncer- tainty of reaching most needy classes, 12,252-6, 12,630- ; unfair taxation for others. 12,257-8; distance of time at which it will take effect, 12,614-42. Mr. H. Allen. Scheme poijular and would soon be widely used, 16,5'y'J-601, 16,617 ; first class of workers and many of secona woald join, 16,636-8 ; would give tone to workers, 16,619-20 ; age should be 60, 16,601-3. l6,6l8 ; 5s a week enough benefit, 16,615 ; insurance of wives, 16,678-84: returnable provisions would be attractive to the thoughtful, 16,616, 16,774-5 ; but more costly, 16,653-7: deposit useful as checking lapses, 16,761-8 ; but this and other payments might be by instalments, 16,605-6, 16,618, 16,762-8; payments monthly; might be through societies, 16,6U4 : friendly societies could best work scheme, 16,606, 16,689-90; less opposed than formerly, would gain by scheme, 16,612—4, 16,659-60; as they could give old age pay under it at half cost, 16,776-84; mem- bers would welcome this, 16,79(>; State supervi- sion would only affect old age branch, and be a gain, 16,785-95: mode of raising pension fund, 16,634-5, 16,691-2 ; most working men would make a partial payment, 16,635 ; effect of State-aided scheme on unaided schemes, 16.677, 16.690, 16,711-2: saving of rates under scheme would balance loss to taxpayer by extensions, 16,658 : present aged should have relaxed poor law, 16,662-3, 16,696-7, 16,725-30 ; strict poor law for those who neglect to join, 16,643-9, 16,753-4. Mr. Bartley. Cost of administration of contributory scheme very great, 8112. Canon Blackley. Scheme a])proved by self and National Providence League on certain conditions, 12,808 : o 86630. STATE PENSIONS: Mk. Chamberlain's Scheme— cont. voluntary scheme not likely to be much used, ex- cept by thrifty, 12,809-11, 12,821, 12,896-8; but a step to compulsory, 12,808, 12,813, 12,875, 12,898-9; with good effect on tone of insurers, 12,891-6: co-operation with friendly societies not essential, 12,821; would be impossible without strict soundness which cannot be guaranteed, 12,824'-7, 12,861-2: State aid not an objection, 12,812 ; might be modified later, 12,868-75, 13,110; diflars from free pensions and poor relief, 12,870-4: benefit to widows, &c., a complication; reaaons why old age insurance should stand nlono without alternative benefit, 12,828-35, l2,«76-7 : State guarantee should be immediate, hut payment deferred, 12,836-41: advantage of lump sum payments in early life, e.g., on leaving juvenile societies, 12,842-8 : cost of management: suggestion that postmen should sell savings stamps, 12,849-50, 12,856-9. 12,900-7. Mr. Brabrook. Case with benefits on death before 65,11,308-10; scheme would deal with individual members of friendly societies, not societies as a whole, 1] ,352-6. Mr. Burton. Views on scheme, 16,116-8; thrifty only would 1)6 benefited, 16,119, 16,233; miners cannot make more payments, 16,230-1, 16,284, 16,286-7. Mr. Oallsab. Scherne very desirable, 14,888-95, 14,921-6 ; popular in district; young could and would pay premiums, 14,889-91, 14,895, 14,946-50 ; would be pressed by parents before marriage, 14,892 ; age for pension might vary, 14,945: would check feeling against present poor law 14,91.3-23; better than local rate, 14,905. Mr. DiSLEY. Value of scheme to young, 17,054 -61, 17,148; could pay premium before marriage, 17,059-60; young women could aff'ord to join, 17,213-6; value of prGvision for arrears, 17,148-65. Mr. Fatkin. Contributory pension scheme would not tempt the working classes, 18,075-7, 18,096-8; financial danger of large State accumulations, 17,923-6; life statistics, 17,923, 17,939, 18,010-3. Mr. Grout. Objections to scheme; difficulty of collection, &c., ]'3,202-3, 13,233-4. Mr. Hardy. Objections to scheme with contributions ; would not affect those most in need, 11,686 ; money paid for insurance would come from sums more properly devoted to other objects, 11,687 ; deductions from wages mean reduced wages, 11,692. 11,757-9; impossibility of dealing with lapses, 11,692 ; money could not be returnable, 11,692; expenses of ad- ministration, 11,692; danger of Government con- trol over so large a sum, 11,692, 11,716-21. Miss Hill. Assisted (e.g., Mr. Chamberlain's) scheme; would encourage looking to outside aid, 10,468-71. 10,5.54 10,700. 10,702, ^ 10,708; would penalise indirect saving, 10,474-5; premium would not attract un- thrifty, 10,696-8. Mr. Hunter. Comparison of cost to working classes of Mr. Chamberlain's and Mr. Booth's schemes. See Ajialysis of Evidence. 3 U$

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