Report of the Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress. : Appendix Volume IV. Minutes of evidence (72nd to 89th days) with appendix. [This volume contains he oral and written evidence of the British Medical Association and of witnesses fromn the following provincial urban centres:- Liverpool and Manchester District; West Yorkshire; Midland towns].

  • Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress 1905-09
Date:
1909
Catalogue details

Licence: In copyright

Credit: Report of the Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress. : Appendix Volume IV. Minutes of evidence (72nd to 89th days) with appendix. [This volume contains he oral and written evidence of the British Medical Association and of witnesses fromn the following provincial urban centres:- Liverpool and Manchester District; West Yorkshire; Midland towns]. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

    26/824 (page 6)
    V MINUTES OF EVIDENCE Mr. H. Ball, relieved by the*] Central Relief Society ?—We know that. 14 Jan. 1907. Liverpool. Undeclared means as- sumed in giving ■out-relief. Effect of waiver of settlement between Liverpool unions. Details of ce-opera- tinn between Poor Law and charity 35580. In every case 7—Yes, in every case I may say. 35581. Do they ask you if people are in receipt of out- door relief before they reUeve ?—They do frequently. 35582. You think you have a good system of co-opera- tion between charity and the Poor Law ?—Very good indeed. 35583. You would know in every case where you were giving rehef in what way your relief was being supple- mented by charity ?—To a great extent, not in every case, they keep that back from us. This refers to the recipients of relief. 35584. Leaving out the spontaneous charity between one individual and another, but including the Central Relief Committee and other organised charitable institu- tions who reheve in such cases ?—In the case of sickness where a man is in the hospital and the wife apphes to the Charity Organisation Society they will appeal to us for information about the husband; what he is suffering from, how long he is hkely to be ill, so that we get in touch with them. If they are able-bodied we have nothing to do with it; it is a case of their going and working in their chip-yard. 35585. In a case where you are giving a small amount of outdoor relief and it is supplemented by an organised relief society, you know of it ?—Not if we are giving rehef ; we do not relieve if the Charity Organisation relieve ; only one of us. When they have done with it, if it has become a chronic case, then they will send a note up to me. 35586. I thought you said you gave outdoor relief upon the assumption that it would be supplemented from some other source ?—It is not from the Charity Organisation, but from religious bodies ; we know that they do give it. It is not from the Charity Organisation ; if we relieve the case they stop ; when they have finished with it they will send word up to us and they will not relieve again without communicating with us. 35587. With regard to the arrangement for non-removal of persons, are there any disadvantages attached to that arrangement ?—I do not think so. It saves a lot of ex- pense all round. When I say all round that is to the three unions; it saves a lot of expense and unnecessary trouble. 35588. If a case comes into your district out of another which had been granted outdoor rehef for a time and then offered the house finally, would you stick to the house order which the other committee had given ?— It would depend on what the house was for. 35589. Then you would reconsider the case ?—Yes. 35590. Is it possible people might move out of one district into another in order to get better treatment by one committee of another board ?—That is a matter of suspicion. I have been under the impression that they do so, and I beUeve so now. 35591. Do you think the influx is towards your union ? —I cannot say. There are a good many leave and go over. As a rule they get the same as they had before ; sometimes they return: old women who say they have been told they have not been long enough in that par- ticular union ; whether there is any truth in it I do not know ; they come back and our board reUeves them at the same rate they had before they left us. 35592. It has not been so apparent as to warrant your •making a separate inquiry into the matter ?—No, the probabihty is, I have thought, that they have not been so comfortable where they have gone as they thought they would be. . 35593. [Miss Hill.) I gather you think the communi- cation between the organised charity and yourself is pretty effectual and satisfactory ?—It is very satis- factory from my point of view. ■ 35594. But there is a good deal of charity which does not choose to link itself with the more organised body ? Yes. I would not expect the reUgious bodies to be organised with the Charity Organisation. They are onlj' Liverpool, to give to their own flock or those who are supposed to be. 35595. Is there any reason why they should not com- municate what they are giving ?—I do not know that there is. I may say this, that if they know it they will not give it to one outside their o\Yr\ flock, as I might term it. 35596. I gather that forms a very great difficulty in Undeclared your deciding what money j'ou ought to give—the dis- means as- organised charity is at the root of the difficulty in deter- sumed in mining what the people ought to have ?—If the board S'^^'iig out- could know for a fact what they were getting it would make it better all round. 35597. So the responsibility is pretty heavy on the disorganised charity for not commimicating either with the organised charity or yourself with regard to what they are doing ?—I would not expect them to communi- cate with our department, not from the churches and chapels. It is more of a private ground. 35598. You do not make any inquiries of the organisa- tions in your own neighbourhood ?—I do not ask them ; I think they would come to the conclusion I was intruding if I did do so. 35599. In consequence of that you are obliged to give a smaller amount of relief, and you give up the hope of Inquiring with regard to what is supplementing that ?— We know that they do get it from these bodies because the visitors are seen going there. 35600. You do not know how much ?—No. 35601. Therefore it leaves you to have to grant a sum which you hope may be enough, but you do not know very much about it ?—AU we really do know for a fact is that there is something coming in from some source ; they wiU not tell us and do not tell us. 35602. Do you ask the people whether they are getting anything ?—We ask, Are you getting any assistance from any_source whatever ? 35603. And they usually say no ?—Yes. 35604. If you find out that they have not told the truth, do you cut them off ?—No, as a rule it is reported to the committee and the committee will speak very strongly to them of the danger they are running. If it is any- thing glaring, they will do so. 35605. If there is any regular allowance from a church or chapel which they do not confess to when you ask them, how are they treated ?—We caution them as a rule. 35606. [Mr. Phelps.) You have five reUeving officers under you ?—Yes. 35607. Are they appointed by the board ?—Yes. Appointment, training, 35608. Have you any voice in their appointment ?— and class of No, I should be sorry if I had. relieving officers. 35609. What class of people do they come from ?—As a rule they are men who have worked their way up. They have been warrant officers, and in two instances have been cross visitors. 35610. Have they, as a rule, had any previous train- ing 1—Yes, as warrant officers ; warrant officers do the relieving officers' duties When they are away on their holidays or sick. 35611. How is a man appointed warrant officer ?— He is appointed by the board. 35612. How many have you ?—Two. 35613. They take the place of a reheving officer who falls out ?—Yes. 35614. Is anything done with regard to their training Training of after they are appointed ?—They are supposed to know relieving the duties when they are appointed. As a rule they officers. are there several years before ever they are promoted. 35615. Do they, for instance, attend lectures at the Liverpool University College ?—No.