Volume 1

National Health Insurance. : Report [and Appendices Vols 1-4] of the Departmental Committee on Sickness Benefit Claims under the National Insurance Act.

  • Great Britain. National Health Insurance Joint Committee.
Date:
1914
Catalogue details

Licence: Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0)

Credit: National Health Insurance. : Report [and Appendices Vols 1-4] of the Departmental Committee on Sickness Benefit Claims under the National Insurance Act. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

    552/570
    18 December 1913.] Mr. 0. W. Woodcock. [Continued. sick pay as well, in the case of a man who met with an accident, of 6s. a week in addition to his compen- sation. I omitted to mention before that this is still in force in respect to the private side. 15.042. So that the benefits on the private side are now 2s. a week instead of 12s. a week during sickness ? —Yes. 15.043. But still 12s. a week in case of compensated accidents ?—For the first fortnight. 15.044. Anything after the first fortnight?—6s. for the old members—those who were members on 16th December 1911, who, of course, had assisted to build up the fund. 15.045. Those are the members who are entitled to these particular benefits from the fund without the payment of any contributions ?—Tes. 15.046. Do new members subscribe to the private fund ?—No, they do not. The company by their scheme, in the case of these men, in addition to the State benefits, pay the same death allowance as was paid under the old rules, and they also grant a pension at 65 of 7s. a week up to 70, and 4s. a week afterwards. 15.047. In the case, therefore, of persons who were members of the society on 16th December 1911, cer- tain additional benefits are given out of the funds thus accumulated without the payment of any con- tribution ?—Yes. 15.048. In the case of persons admitted after that date certain other additional benefits are granted, but solely, in this case, at the cost of the company?— That is so. I may say that those who were members on 16th December 1911 have 2s. pension from the accumu- lated fund plus 5s. from the company. That makes them 7s., and as the old fund will yield Is. after 70 the company add another 3s., so it puts future members in the same position as the old members in respect of pension. 15.049. The old members obtain from the funds of the society 2s. between 65 and 70,.and the company grants a further 5s., so the total pension up to between 65 and 70 is 7s. a week, and after 70 it continues to be 7s. because the old age pension takes the place of the company's pension ?—Yes, except after 70 ; he receives then 3s.' from the company and Is. from the society; total, 4s. 15.050. What is the difference between that and the new members ?—They are on the same footing. The only thing is that 2s. and Is. do not come out of the accumulated fund, but out of the company's funds. The old members on the 16th December 1911 have 2s. up to 70, and Is. after 70 from their accumulation. The company add their 5s. up to 70 and 3s. afterwards, making it 7s. and 4s. The company themselves out of their pocket have put the new members, who came in since that date, in the same position as the others for their 3d. a week. 15.051. So that the member receives a pension or superannuation of 7s. altogether between 65 and 70, and 9s. after he is 70, if he is eligible for the old age pension ?—That is so. 15.052. And that applies both to present members and to future entrants ?—Yes. Of course the 5s. old age pension acts in respect to the old members as well as to the new. 15.053. You told us just now that the sick pay on the private side had been reduced from 12s. to 2s. ?— Yes. 15.054. The total sickness benefit received by the members is the same now as it was before the Insurance Act was passed ?—Practically. Of course chronics we have to take into account, hut it is practi- cally the same. 15.055. Why do you make an exception of the chronics ? They are not insured persons ?—No. 15.056. Every insured person gets, in fact, 12s. If he is insured on both sides of the society he gets 12s. from the society. If he is insured in some other society for the State benefit he gets 2s. from the society and 10s. from the other society ?—Yes. 15.057. And in each case the amount is the same as he got before the Act came into operation ?—Yes. 15.058. What have you to say to the suggestion, which has been advanced in some quarters, that sick- ness claims have been heavy in 1913, as compared with 1912 ?—I am prepared to say that so far as we are concerned, they have not been so heavy as last year. I am sorry that I have not been able to get out some proper statistics for the Committee, but I believe that there is a saving on the payments of the year. I should not like you to accept that without some documentary evidence, but I believe the claims have not been so heavy with us.* 15.059. Have you any figures you can give us ? Can you tell us the total amount of sickness claims in the year 1912 ?—I have here a couple of our old balance sheets. The 1912 claims amount to 38,053L 15.060. Do these claims include the benefits you spoke of just now as accident benefit ?—Yes. 15.061. That should be taken off, should it not? Can you give us an idea of the figure ?—2,520Z. for accidents. 15.062. These claims also include sickness benefit for members who were chronically sick, and are not insured under the National Insurance Act ?—Yes. 15.063. Have you continued to pay out of the private funds of the society the full rate of benefit to those persons ?—Yes, the rate of benefit they are entitled to. Of course many chronic cases were ill before July 15th, 1912, and had been for some years, so they were on half-pay—6s. 15.064. How many of these have you ?—I should think about 450, drawing about 161. a year each. 15.065. That would afford some guide to the amount that ought to be excluded from this year as representing sickness which does not in any case come under the National Insurance Act ?—Yes. 15.066. Can you give us any figures for the year 1913 ? What have you paid on the private side ?— For the nine months 12,704i. 15.067. That includes the sickness benefit of 2s. a week, the chronics at 6s., and the accidentals at 12s. a week. What have you paid on the State side in the same period ?—11,564Z. 15.068. These two payments taken together, amounting to 24,200Z., represent the same state of things as existed prior to the A.ct, with one exception, do they not ? The sickness claims of those members who have not made the society their approved society * Statement showimj a romjmrixoit of the xh-l;nexx experience at' tl„- Matin ml Railway Friendly Society in the year* 1912 and 1913 :— In 1912 the society was responsible for sickness benefits of 12.s. a week for 26 weeks and 6s. a week for the remainder of sickness. From loth January 1913 the benefits on the private side were reduced to a sum sufficient, with the State benefit, to make up the same amount of sick benefit that the members of the society receive I previously. In respect, therefore, of the members who made the society their approved society, the total sickness benefit in 1913 was precisely the same as in 1912. In respect of the members who did not make the society their approved society, the sickness benefit in 1913 appears only on the voluntary side, and is at the reduced rate, namely, the first three days of sickness at li'.v. a week, sickness benefit for 26 weeks where the member was under 50 years of age at its. a week, and where the member was between 50 and 70 at 5*. or 6s. a week, as the case may be. The claims for sickness benefit in 1912 (not including accidents) amounted to 35.533Z. The sickness benefit claims in 1913 were— £ On the State side 15,113 On the private side 15,666 In all 30,779 The number of insured persons who did not make the society their approved society was 3,286. The claims of this class for sickness benefit under the Act may be estimated at 10s .each, being the equivalent of one week's sick pay for ages under 50 1,643 Total 32,422 On comparing Hits last figure with t he corresponding sum for 1912, as above stated, namely, 35,533Z., it is seen that the claims in 1913 have been about 10 per cent, less than in 1912. (Signed) C. W. Woodcock.