Volume 1
National Health Insurance. : Report [and Appendices Vols 1-4] of the Departmental Committee on Sickness Benefit Claims under the National Insurance Act.
- Great Britain. National Health Insurance Joint Committee.
- Date:
- 1914
Licence: Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0)
Credit: National Health Insurance. : Report [and Appendices Vols 1-4] of the Departmental Committee on Sickness Benefit Claims under the National Insurance Act. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.
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![18 December 1913.] Mr. C. W. Woodcock. [Continued. him down at the docks drunk?—No, he had been reported to us as drunk, and our inspector went to investigate the case, and trapped the man. He said he was in bed at this particular time, and then after- wards when the inspector said, You were very drunk down at the docks ? he said, No, I was not near drunk. 15.157. He did not mind being charged with lying, but he objected to being told that he was drunk ?— That is so 15.158. There is a familiar ring about this case. I should not have thought that it had anything to do with anything that had arisen since the passing of the Insurance Act. Is it not the same sort of diffi- culty that you have always had ?—We have had these difficulties before, but I do not think that they were quite as accentuated. I think there is a little bit too much ease in giving certificates. I am afraid that the doctors are inclined to take a man's statement. I do not want to speak disrespectfully of them, because some of them are among my best friends. 15.159. Have you any other cases ?—I think that it is against the rules to make out certificates in pencil and to sign in pencil. I have an average of 35 a week of these. There is the man who will for a trifle alter a pencil certificate. They could easily alter a date. 15.160. On the one hand, you think t hat the doctors are not quite strict enough in giving certificates ?—I am sure that that is so, from the instances which have come under my notice. 15.161. And, on the other hand, that members are more ready to claim benefit than they were before. Yet the fact remains that, for some reason or other, you think that your claims are not more numerous than before the Act came into operation ?—No, not after the first commencement of the Act. 15.162. (Mr. Mosses.) You say that you have 32,000 insured members ?—Yes. 15.163. And 35,000 members connected with the voluntary side ?—No, 3,000 connected with the volun- tary side. 15,164-5. A total of 35,000 ?—A total of 35,000, that is right. 15.166. Is your State side altogether separate from the voluntary side ?—Yes, as far as we possibly can. We have to keei3 the sick pay in one book and separate it afterwards. 15.167. Is it administered separately ?—Yes. 15.168. I have just been calculating your sickness expenditure, and I make it 2^d. per week ?—2id. per week. 15.169. Does that include maternity benefit ?—No, that is sick pay. 15.170. I suppose that you are slightly below the actuarial est imate of your sickness liabilities ?—I hope so, and I think so. 15.171. So that really you have no occasion to say that you have any complaint to make of excessive sick- ness ?—I do not say that I have. It is less, owing to our system of management. 15.172. Could you give us the denomination of these 32.000 approved members that you have ? Could you tell us roughly what grades of service they are engaged in ?—That is rather difficult. We have drivers, firemen, shunters, cleaners, and so on The locomotive department embraces drivers, firemen, boilermakers, shed sweepers, and so on. There would be 9,000 of them. 15.173. Have you any of the clerical staff approved members ?—Yes, but not a great number. 15.174. Are we safe in assuming that your member- ship is drawn from almost every grade connected with the working of the Midland Railway Company, includ- ing, as you say, the office staff ?—That is so. 15.175. Is there any special reason for so many of your voluntary members becoming approved members? —I think that I can explain that. On the balance- sheet of last year, excluding superannuated members, we had 34,400 men. They were all invited to be insured members through the society, and pay 3d. and no other contribution. Forms were sent out for them to sign, aud also forms to members of the staff who were not members of the society at that time. The result was that a great number of those 34,400 did not make ours their approved society, but made another, and some of the staff who were members of other societies made ours their approved society, and that accounts for the apparent anomaly. 15.176. Supposing that one of your approved members leaves the service of the company, what happens ?—He should transfer within three months according to the present rule, but if he is an old member on the voluntary side, he retains his right to his share in the accumulated funds. 15.177. I am speaking of the State side?—If he goes out of the service of the company, he transfers out for State benefits within three months. 15.178. Has there been any pressure brought to bear upon the men in the employment of the Midland Railway Company to become members on the volun- tary side ?—Before this was inaugurated it was a matter of compulsion, not for all grades, but for the majority of the grades, to be members of that society; it was a condition of service. 15.179. Has there been any pressure put upon the same class of men to become members of the State section ?—Absolutely none. 15.180. Is there any preference in the way of pro- motion or employment given to those who become members of the State section?—Absolutely none. 15.181. And no disability attaches to anyone who has become a member, say, of the Railway Workers' Union ?—Absolutely none. 15.182. I notice that you have a very distinguished list of honorary members. I see on the first page of your rules that the patrons are the Chairman and Directors of the Midland Railway Company, your trustees are gentlemen well known in the railway world, and so is your treasurer ?—Yes. 15.183. Then on the last page of your book of rules I see that you have got a special Act of Parliament—I am speaking, of course, of your voluntary side—which enables the company to contribute to the funds of the Midland Railway Friendly Society, and also to be their bankers ?—Yes. 15.184. Do these gentlemen exercise any control over the voluntary side ?—No; they do not exercise any control whatsoever, they simply act as gentlemen, and will do anything they possibly can for the mem- bers ; they do not take any active part in it, if that is what you mean, and they do not use their position to influence the members in any way. 15.185. Do they exercise no supervision whatever with regard to the voluntary side ?—No, not now; it is left entirely to the men. 15.186. And they act the part of bankers from a desire to further the interest of the fund ?—That is so. I may say that so far as the voluntary side is concerned they hold a great portion of our funds on deposit to be drawn at sight, and they pay us 4 per cent., but of course the State side is a different thing altogether. 15.187. The Commissioners have your money ?— Yes. 15.188. Your registered offices are at Derby ?— Yes. 15,189-91. In the offices of the Midland Company, may I presume ?—Yes, but they are going to turn me out, and I shall have to pay rent. Up to now we have paid nothing. They have found us light and heat and everything. The accommodation is not sufficient, and there is no further accommodation available. They are building us new premises. 15.192. How is your committee of management elected ?—It is elected from the men by ballot. There are 16 members; five retire each of the first two years, and six retire the third year. There is an election pending now. 15.193. Do the directors appoint any of this man- agement committee ?—Yes, there are five nominees of the company; there used only to be three, but now they have a proportion in accordance with the Act. 15.194. From what grades are those five nominees of the directors selected ?—There is one each from the accountants stall', the engineers, traffic department, and the locomotive department. They ai-e very useful to us in putting down malingering, and anything of](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b21361125_001_0557.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
