Seventh report from the Select Committee on Estimates : together with the proceedings of the committee on 25th May, the minutes of evidence taken before sub-committee D and appendices, session 1948-49 : the administration of the national health services.

  • Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. Select Committee on Estimates
Date:
1949
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Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Seventh report from the Select Committee on Estimates : together with the proceedings of the committee on 25th May, the minutes of evidence taken before sub-committee D and appendices, session 1948-49 : the administration of the national health services. Source: Wellcome Collection.

    134/152 page 104
    22 March, 1949.] Sir FREDERICK J. ALBAN, [Continued. ° Mr. Selwyn Lloyd. 1176. Is there another system of audit as well in Scotland?—There is a Scottish Department of Health. 1177. They have an independent one?— They audit the direct expenditure of the Regional Boards and they also audit the block expenditure of the Boards of Man- agement—snap audits when they feel like it. 1178. Quite apart auditors?—Yes. from your internal Chairman. 1179. To go to the next question, the method of preparing the 1949-50 estimates, Mr. Julian, I think you usually start off?— (Mr. Julian.) What happened was this. When the 1949-50 estimates were prepared by the Finance Officers of the Hospital Management Committees, they were pre- pared before the supplementary estimates. It is rather important to remember that. The 1949-50 estimates were actually pre- pared before the supplementary estimates for 1948-49, and they were prepared by Finance Officers of Hospital Management Com- mittees from data which had been provided by the County or Borough Treasurer for the Municipal Public Health Hospitals, and by the Administrative Officers for the volun- tary hospitals. They prepared their estimates on the last available figures, either 31st December, 1947, or 31st March, 1948, or as late as they were able to get them from these various authorities, either the public authorities or the governing bodies of voluntary hospitals, and they adjusted them as well as they could in the light of changes of salaries and prices of commodities. There was no cover provided for unfore- seen expenditure because it was thought that that would be interpreted in the way of a supplementary to be submitted in December this year. The original suggestion, and in fact the present scheme, is that you submit your budget, and, if there are, as there must be, unforeseen happenings, in between September or October, or whatever it isthe back end of the year preceding the budget—and the year succeding the budget, obviously by the end of the current calendar year the supplementary budget would have to be looked at. As far as we can see, there is no alternative to that, unless you have a budget or put in a figure for contingencies. At any rate, no figure was put in for other than things which it was known were going to happen. 1180. Were you asked to prepare the estimate in accordance with any particular form, or was it left entirely open?—It is laid down in the Act in the Second Schedule on pages 10, 11, 12 and 13 and following, you see. (Mr. Reese.) It is in Statutory Instrument No. 1414. It is not in the Act. 1181. That allows nothing for contin- gencies?—(Mr. Julian.) Shall I put it this way? It allowed for what a Hospital Management Committee felt in its own year, 1949-50. They might have said, in the case of Hospital No. 17, “We hope to get the Maternity Block open, and we hope to get that staffed and working.” It provided for that sort of thing, but no cover for anything completely unforeseen. As an example, perhaps six months after they had sent in their budget there might have from the Minister that such and such a service was to be provided. Obviously they could not provide for that sort of thing, to cover the unknown or the unforeseeable. They actually made their budget up on the facts they had before them supplied by people who had previously run the hospital, and they adjusted those as far as they were able to in the light of changes been extremely active in the up-grading of nurses and administrators and so on, and they adjusted it as far as they were able to cope with the increase in the prices of commodities, and they made provision in their budget for such work as they thought much in building new hospitals, but in perhaps re-establishing here or putting another into operation there, and that was all. If they put in a figure of £15,000 for opening a ward, they had hospital they were going to open it, and so on. 1182. When was that estimate submitted to the Ministry of Health?—-About the 15th October. of your Region’s estimate was?—The total amount of my estimate was £13,946,586. 1184. How did that compare with the previous years?—There was no comparison really. Do you mean how would it have compared? ; 1185. With the expenditure for the now current year?—It was very very near, as it so happened, to the actual expenditure. If you take our nine months expenditure and turn it into a twelve months expenditure for that period, it is just over £13,000,000 £13,012,000. What we budgeted for was £12,900,000. of payments to doctors, and other salaries — and wages, so that out of the £13,000,000 | odd, getting on for £8,000,000 odd actually | | | |
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