Volume 2

Report of the Inter-Departmental Committee on Physical Deterioration.

  • Great Britain. Inter-Departmental Committee on Physical Deterioration.
Date:
1904
Catalogue details

Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Report of the Inter-Departmental Committee on Physical Deterioration. Source: Wellcome Collection.

    48/518 (page 38)
    38 705. Nor Russia ?—No. 706. Nor Finland ?—No. 707. There is a system in vogue there of chi'dren’s workshops ?—With regard to children’s workshops I should like to offer this observation, that you find a very considerable section of our community which is always ready to rise the moment it scents any new move with regard to manual instruction, with some observation of this kind: «* You are going to make galley slaves of these children.” Therefore whatever we introduce must be under a proper educational scheme. If we are going to let them make hen coops, we must be able to demonstrate the educational value of that to the people who are ready to fly down our throats with the galley slave argument. For that reason [ should lay very great stress on keeping the educational notion in the curriculum all through. 708. We are endeavouring to solve that in the Jewish Industrial School at Hayes. You know what they are doing ?—Yes, [always have Hayes in mind when consider- in* this point. 709. Now, with regard to lads’ clubs. them as an agency for good ?—Yes. You spoke of 710. And, no doubt, in your travels about the country, you have seen, as I have, a great number of such excellent institutions ?—Yes. 711. Has it ever struck you that it is a pity that all those schools should be working more or less in isolation ? —Yes, I think so. 712. You think their power would be increased if they were more organised ?—I continually tell those managers whom I come across that if they would only get a confer- ence for that purpcse, it would be a great advantage, if they could form a strong active federation. The Twentieth Century League is a move in this direction, and I learn that there is a Union of Girls’ Clubs in London as well. I quite agree, and lay very great stress on that point. 713. Further, do you say a great advantage is likely to acerue if boys’ clubs are definitely associated with particu- lar schools, to catch up the chi!dren leaving the schools ? —It would be most excellent. I should prefer the thing to be ran in combination with evening continuation schools, and I should like the club to be the recreative branch, held in a different building. 714. Do you know of any other town besides Man- chester which h s these lady health visitors ?—I do not. 715. You have spoken a good deal, about the impor- tance you attach to industrial training for girls, in view of their health, and so on ?—Rather industrial ozcupations at school. 716. Now you will be interested to hear that your idea as to the fact that girls are in physique better than boys, in certain strata, is borne out by two physical censuses I have had among industrial schools and reformatories ? —I am very glad t> hear it. 717. To get this industrial training for girls, would you approve of a system whereby girls, and even boys, could leave an ele nentary school earlier than the school age— earlier than the legal term of the lessons—a system by which they could do s9 by permission from the educational authority of the district ?—For what. purpose ? 718. That the girls should go home and work for their mother, cr that they should go out to a day place. Do you not think that if the mother found that there was a really decent home ready for her, and she could get her girl out a year earlier to help in the domestic occupations of the home, that woud be an enormous incentive to those on the border line, between the lowest of the classes and that class who wish to improve their homes ?—I do not think this would be a good move. — I think that that class of girl would probably help somebody else for half a crown a week, ruin her own health for a pittance; 719. Do you think that would be bad for the girl ?— I think it would. I am anxious to keep these girls away from ugly circumstances of overstrain of their homes as long as ever I can. 720. But they go home every night—I am speaking of girls in ordinary schools. Why not give the manageress of an ordinary elementary day school the same powers of licensing girls as are enjoyed by tle managers of a day industrial school ?—Because in my experience I have seen a great many girls whose health and constitution have been ruined by the excess of work piled on them at home by their own wretched parenss, oy the people they worked for for a pittance. 721. But the licence would not be granted except after very careful investigation by the school authority 7— That would not suffice. You would want inspection to see it was done. 722. The licence could be revoked ?—Then you would have to have all the mechanism of the school authority to bring the child to school again. It is quite bad enough now to get a child of thirteen into school nowadays, whose parent wishes to keep him or her away. I should offer no facility to parents more than they have now. If they want to do so now they can do it by a child of thirteen passing the labour certificate examination. I should afford the parents no further facilities. 723. But as the tendency of modern legislation goes, the age may be increased to fourteen. Do you think it is a wise provision that, if the age of compulsory school attendance were increased, some such proviso as the power of licensing should be given ?—I should be in a position to answer that when the age has reached fourteen. 724. (Mr. Struthers.) Perhaps Mr. Legge will say at what age he contemplates the girls leaving. 725. (Mr. Legge.) I should say from twelve years six months ?—You have seen from my height statistics that some of those children at thirteen are no bigger than normal children of nine. 726. I am not speaking necessarily of the poorest class of girl ?—You are talking of some of the children I measured up for you here. A child thirteen years of age who is only of the size of a nine-years-old child is certainly not one that you would encourage to leave school a day 727. I am not talking of her leaving school earlier; I am talking of her leaving school for half-time ?—I thought you meant for entire exclusion. 728. No ?—You are speaking of the restitution of half- time. 729. Under carefully guarded circumstances and for domestic employment ?—1 have had so much experience of the slavery of young girls in the homes of the poorer neighbouhood that I do not hesitate to condemn any attempt to slacken the fetters of the elementary schcolk authority over these children. Any instruction in domestic employment must come through the school authority until the present legal limit of school age is attained. I feel that it is the least deserving parents, in the majority of cases, who would press for the exclusion of their children. As for really deserving cases, the school authority h s at present all the necessary power, in that it need not prosecute a parent whose circumstances are such as to merit consideration This power is constantly being increased. 730. I have only one more question to ask you, and that is with regard to the collection of statistical facts. Perhaps you could tell me roughly what is the total number of children attending school in London ?—I will tell you in a moment. 731. Is it a quarter of a million ?—It is many more— three quarters of a million. It is something like 763,000 as a matter of fact. 732. If you only wanted to get physical information for those children for statistical purposes do you think 50,000 would be enough ?—They would, for the purposes of information, but not for the purposes of complete statistics. You would get a great deal of information which would be of enormous value by these simple enquiries. 733. But you do not think that would be enough for statistical purposes ?—I could not say till we had taken the statistics, but I guarantee to say you would get ex- ceedingly useful information by examining even 20,000. I should be inclined to encourage the examination of as many as the ratepayers would permit us to examine. I should prefer to examine a much greater number, but I think we could get very valuable information from 50,000. 734, One final question. Do you think that we would get better results by ealling for information, say of about 50,000 out of a total number of three quarters of a million, taken at random, or by selecting two ages or even one age, and continually hammering away at that one age and