Schools : eighth report from the Select Committee on Estimates together with the Minutes of Evidence taken before Sub-Committee E and Appendices, Session 1952-1953.

  • Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. Select Committee on Estimates
Date:
1953
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Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Schools : eighth report from the Select Committee on Estimates together with the Minutes of Evidence taken before Sub-Committee E and Appendices, Session 1952-1953. Source: Wellcome Collection.

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    11 February, 1953.] | Continued. problem there?—(Dr. Alexander.) I can give you two examples to show the nature of the problem. South of Sheffield Mr. Long built a school in five and a half months. It was built of timber, with the consent of the Ministry. One school had to be there within six months; in fact it was completed in five and a half months, and it will be opened on the 20th February. It is the fastest building of a school of which I have ever heard, because otherwise there was a situation in which children were living on a new housing estate with no provision at all. 428. Was that an economic proposition, do you think?—I think it was quite an economic provision in terms of the cost of building a school, but whether it will be there in 60 years’ time—that is the average life we normally expect in a school —only the future can determine. It is a timber school. It will probably be quite attractive, but I know the climate of Sheffield sufficiently well to doubt whether a timber building will in fact continue to be satisfactory. 429. That is not the point of my argu- ment. You are telling me that in fact that is where they have satisfactorily met the situation?—No, it 1s one school where per- haps 10 are needed. Nine more schools are needed on that estate. They have to be built. The point is that the children are away ahead of the tempo of the building programme. 430. Have you got any idea what it does cost to transport the children?—I could not give a figure. 430a. This is the Sheffield authority?— It would affect both. The schools will actually have to be built by Derbyshire because the estate is in that county, but the children are being moved from the city of Sheffield. Mr. Norman Cole. 431. I understand the Chairman’s point to be what is happening to the children now, how far are they transported and what is the cost?—Distances up to five miles. That would be my estimate. I do not know the facts. In Hertfordshire, with the over- spill from London, there must be a very heavy transport problem. (Mr. Hirst.) 1! think it is reasonable to assume that in all these new housing estates the schools lag behind the housing. Chairman. 432. Do you find that is general?—I find that is general. (Dr. Alexande;y.) I think that is a fair statement. Chairman.] 1 used to be a member of the Birmingham Education Authority, and Mr. Norman Cole. 433. That costs money in transport?— (Mr. Hirst.) It costs money in transport; it costs money in the hire of premises ; and you have the difficulty of unsatisfactory conditions. 434. You cannot have both. If you hire premises you have not got to transport the children?—(Dr. Alexander.) The transport cost is quite high. Chairman. 435. Have you any figures at all?—I could obtain figures for you. The present transport bill is of the order of £4 million in the country, but much of that would probably be required in any case. I am not suggesting that is all due to this. 436. What I am trying to find out is whether the present method is expensive. It is our job to inquire into that?—I would have to make special inquiries in the areas where I know it is happening. It is the additional cost of transport caused by the failure of the school building programme. 437. Could you let us have a memo- randum* on that from the information you are able to collect?—Yes. I could obtain that information for you. Mr. Norman Cole. 438. It is not the failure of the school building programme. That is limited by the availability of materials, manpower and money. There is also the speed with which it is carried out. There are two points?— It is the relationship between the housing programme tempo and the school building programme tempo. If you would agree that I took a sampling that would be quicker. I could take half a dozen areas where I know this problem exists. I could give you the size of the area and a sampling figure of the cost which is in- curred in those cases, Mr. James Johnson.] Is this.the place to ask what type of school, in view of the speed of building, they would advise to be built? Chairman. 439. I think we are coming later to that question. Dr. Alexander, I think we have dealt with a very important question now. Thirdly you say there is no provision to enable reorganisation to be carried to. com- pletion. It seems to me we are now step- ping into policy here?—It is policy in a way, except that it is agreed policy. The nation is agreed on what is to be done here. This is in relation to the provision of secondary education for all. The sole controlling factor is the building pro- gramme. There is no dispute that it should be done. As I say the sole controlling