Schools : eighth report from the Select Committee on Estimates together with the Minutes of Evidence taken before Sub-Committee E and Appendices, Session 1952-1953.

  • Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. Select Committee on Estimates
Date:
1953
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Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Schools : eighth report from the Select Committee on Estimates together with the Minutes of Evidence taken before Sub-Committee E and Appendices, Session 1952-1953. Source: Wellcome Collection.

    60/256 (page 40)
    11 February, 1953.] [Continued. factor is that there is no provision in the building programme to enable it to be done. If I were to go to the Minister to- day and say, ‘“ Look, I have here six all- age schools. They should be reorganised. { have to build a secondary school to pro- vide for children at age eleven”, the answer would be “That is not able to be entertained. It simply is not a proposition within the limitations of the building pro- gramme, You cannot do it”. The effect of that is really serious. There was an article in one of the Yorkshire papers only last week stating quite bluntly that the rural areas had to accept the position that they were financing secondary education for other people and they were not going to get it themselves for an indefinite period. That has been the effect. The rural areas are very dissatisfied. They feel they are being dealt with unjustly. What they have been promised is not being given. In other areas, for example, on a housing estate, in an urban community, you have to build wew schools, and therefore you can do your reorganisation because naturally you would build both primary and secondary schools. In rural areas they get nothing. We have had very strong representations, and we have endeavoured to obtain infor- mation as to what would be necessary. A relatively small sum provided annually would enable this problem to be resolved in a very limited space of time, within a few years. We feel that would be amply justified. Mr. James Johnson.| While we accept the thesis that perhaps 900,000 all-age schools are still operating and while we sympathise with Dr. Alexander on this aspect, it is a matter of policy really and I do not think we can usefully enquire into economies in that field. Chairman. 440. The Ministry are making provision for secondary school education for all in accordance with the Act?—No, Sir. Let us be quite clear about that. 441. I should like to ask you this ques- tion. We understand that it is largely a question of tempo whether a school is built in three months or a year, but the actual programme is to build in accordance with the policy laid down?—The present policy in regard to the building programme is that there are only two- conditions in which schools may be built—if it provides for children five years old or if it provides for children on a new housing estate. No other justification exists. Therefore it is true to say that at the present time there are many children who are not being given a secondary education at all. ‘That is a statement of fact. 442. As Mr. Johnson says I think we are on to policy here. You go on to say in the memorandum that the school build- ing is at present inadequate to the needs of the situation, That is the point you are making, I think?—That really is the whole burden of this argument. 443. You recognise that the total calls on the building resources exceed the capacity of the industry, and therefore in fact you could not carry out your building programme because the building industry has not the capacity in any case?—Our building programme is entirely dependent on the proportion of the total output of the building industry which is allocated to that purpose, and therefore it is not a matter ip which we can do other than make a claim. The percentage of the total output of the building industry which is allocated to the school building programme is a matter obviously for determination by the Government. In the Cleary Committee our hope was that we would get six* per cent. In other words, that would enable the pro- gramme to be carried out. At the moment I do not know what the percentage is. Mr. James Johnson. 444. In the second complete paragraph on page two of the memorandum this is said: ‘Secondly, there is complete failure to make provision for bringing wholly un- satisfactory existing accommodation up to required standards”. In the elementary schools, particularly Catholic schools at the moment, the parents in actual fact are making great efforts indeed. They are building huts. The men are wiring them up, and the women are even carrying pails of cement to help in the building. Is there any scope, in your view, for parents giving their voluntary labour and helping in these—I will not call them black listed schools—unsatisfactory school buildings? Is that being done on any scale? Do you think there is any sense or any use in en- couraging that sort of thing?—Not the slightest. You are really on a very different issue there, with respect. The general body of your parents expect the schools to be provided out of the rates and taxes. The particular community to which you have referred, for reasons which are very clear to-day, desire to provide their own schools, so-called, and they are prepared to make very great efforts to that end. Therefore you have quite a different situation, one in which you have a body of parents who know that the only way they can get the school they want is if they provide it. No one else provides it. 445. Your view is that it would be un- satisfactory, to say no more, to attempt to encourage this sort of thing, that parents should help with voluntary activities in making these bad buildings better?—Your * Note by Witness:—The figure of six per cent. was calculated on the assumption that the total output of the building industry was about £1200 million, whereas it proved to be £700 million.