Schools : eighth report from the Select Committee on Estimates together with the Minutes of Evidence taken before Sub-Committee E and Appendices, Session 1952-1953.

  • Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. Select Committee on Estimates
Date:
1953
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Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Schools : eighth report from the Select Committee on Estimates together with the Minutes of Evidence taken before Sub-Committee E and Appendices, Session 1952-1953. Source: Wellcome Collection.

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    18 February, 1953.] [Continued. out of special schools?—Let us put it in this way. Many of these children in special schools can be brought up, trained and edu- cated in such a way that they will be much less of a burden on society when they grow up than if they are left in ordinary schools. (Mr. Britton.) | should have felt in a large town where you are providing additional places, if you provide a certain number of additional special school places you are really saving in so far as you have taken those children who ought to have special education out of the normal class and enable the normal class to work more efficiently because they have not got the drag of these children. Miss Ward. 601. I have been impressed on occasions with the fact that some local authorities provide accommodation and teaching in these special classes, whereas others do not. Do you think that it ever would be pos- sible in any area to collect all the children from the variety of local authorities, children who require special accommoda- tion and special teaching, and make it a sort of special thing, rather than trying to provide all this additional accommodation local authority by local authority?—(Mr. Griffith.) That is what is actually happening, and in Wales, where they have set up the W.J.E.C.—Welsh Joint Educational Com- mittee—they tend to put all the responsi- bility for all of them on the one authority for the very reason you have stated. Smal] counties cannot provide enough for one kind of special school, and we want not just special schools but the different types of special schools. 602. You think it would be, looking at it from the economy point of view, wise to examine the whole problem from that angle as well as from the individual angle, so to speak?—Yes; and in practice it is being done. In other areas it is the volun- tary school that may cater for a number of authorities, like the Doncaster Deaf Schoo] caters for Yorkshire and even some parts of East Anglia. (Mr. Britton.) I think one must say the whole idea argues such schools would have to be residential. If you are going to collect children from a number of authorities they would have to _ be residential. 603. It is awfully depressing for local authorities who have no special accommo- dation, or shall I say it is very depressing for parents, to hear that one local authority has made provision, whereas the local autho- rity under which their children come has made no provision. I think it is psycholo- gical _as well as being a problem of organisation?—(Mr. Griffith.) Might we ask about the building programme for the future, because I think it is an important aspect. I do not know whether it comes within your jurisdiction. If we are only going to spend about the same amount of money in the next few years on the buildings, the posi- tion is going to be even worse than it is now, for this reason, that the cost of secondary accommodation being £240 per place and the cost of primary accommo- dation being £140 per place, as the children grow up for every twelve primary places you are able to build with the money you will only be able to build seven secondary places. If there is to be proper secondary accommodation it looks as if there ought to be very much more money spent. At the present time there is this switchover or emphasis from the building of primary schools to the building of secondary schools to meet the needs of the children as they grow older. Chairman. 604. We can quite appreciate that you have in your minds what you think is de- sirable. That, of course, involves policy, and it is difficult for us to say what is desirable. I was going to raise the general question of the school population ; perhaps that will lead on to this. We understand that the school places required by the end of 1953, as the agreed figure with the Min- istry of Education, is 1,150,000. Do you roca that?—(Mr. Hickman.) Yes, we agree that. 605. Do you consider first of all that figure is scientific or a satisfactory figure? Would that meet the situation so far as primary places are concerned?—(Mr. Griffith.) I would say it is a very rough figure in this sense: that the children are not evenly spread, and they are continu- ally moving from old places to new places. I am of the opinion myself that to meet the needs of 1,150,000 you want more than 1,150,000 places. You cannot have exactly 30 children or 40 children to each class- room. 606. That brings in Mr. Hickman’s point that he raised earlier. I think you were rather saying that the schools were over- crowded from the _ beginning?—(Mr. Hickman.) Yes. 607. Is that the experience now?—The schools are grossly overcrowded almost everywhere. The infant schools at the moment are distressingly overcrowded almost throughout England and Wales. 608. Even the new schools?—Yes, right from the beginning. (Mr. Britton.) It is quite a usual experience to open a new school and have one or two classes in the hall within three or four months. (Mr. Hick- man.) The lag of schools is so far behind that they are filled to capacity almost as soon as they open.