Second report of the Departmental Committee appointed to inquire into the law relating to coroners and coroners' inquests, and into the practice in coroners' courts.

  • Great Britain. Committee on Coroners.
Date:
1909
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Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Second report of the Departmental Committee appointed to inquire into the law relating to coroners and coroners' inquests, and into the practice in coroners' courts. Source: Wellcome Collection.

    33/232 (page 3)
    25 May 1909.] [ Continued. had very much experience of deaths under anesthetics. I have examined a few cases for the coroner in my district. 6229. But do you suggest any distinction between deaths under anzsthetics and deaths of other kinds from other causes, from poisoning, for instance, which makes it more desirable that there should be an assessor in the one case than in the other ?—I think it is much more advisable in cases of deaths under anesthetics than, for instance, in cases of deaths under poisons and so on, because the anwsthetic is wilfully administered by a medical man for the purposes of surgical pro- cedure, and, in the interests of the public, a high degree of efficiency in the administration of anzsthetics should be maintained, 6230. (Dr. Willcox.) I think you stated that it is very necessary in pathological work that all clinical evidence of the medical man who has attended the case during life should be available?—Yes. I feel quite strongly upon that subject. I think that every medical man, even though he is only called to see the dead body, should be summoned to give evidence. 6231. And do you think it would be a help to you in your work before you made the post-mortem exami- nation, if you could have medical reports of the clinical symptoms during life to guide you ?—Yes, I think myself that either before or during the post- mortem examination such a report would be very helpful indeed in a great many cases. 6232. Assuming that the medical man is unable to be present, do you think it is very desirable that the coroner should be allowed to obtain medical reports from medical men and give a fee for them ?—I think that as long as such a report was properly paid for, it would be quite a good plan. 6233. At present you know the coroner cannot get a report from a medical man because he is unable to pay a fee P—Yes. 6234. Do you think it would be desirable to give the coroner the power to pay a fee for a medical report ? —I think it would. I think that any report obtained should be paid for. 6235. You, as I know, have had very large experience in coroner's work, and I should like to ask you this: In a great many cases on which you make post-mortem examinations, is it not a fact that it is not only skill in opening the body which is required, but also bacterio- logical and histological work often has to be done in order to elucidate the facts ?—I quite agree with that ; the use of the microscope for histological and bacterio- logical work is in some cases essential. 6236. For instance, I believe you have had some inquest cases of glanders?—Yes, I think I have had one. I have examined three cases of glanders, one after the other; one I think was an inquest case. 6237. In such a disease it is necessary, is it not, for special experiments to be made before you can diagnose the condition ?—Yes. 6238. And glanders is, I believe, a very infectious disease ?—It is a very infectious disease. 6239. So that, from the public point of view, it is most desirable that many of these post-mortems should be worked out in a very thorough manner ?—Yes. 6240. When you said that special pathologists, such as hospital pathologists, should be appointed to do a large portion of the post-mortem work, you were re- ferring rather particularly to London ?—Yes, I think it _ would be a much more practical scheme in‘a large city than in a country district. 6241. We have had evidence from a coroner in the country who said that he appointed the divisional surgeons of police to make all the post-mortems, those gentlemen having had a good deal of post-mortem experience. Do you consider that system in ordinary cases is a safe one ?—In suggesting that in all cases it is advisable that the post-mortem should be made by a medical man who has special skill and constant practice in conducting such examinations, I rather had in my mind some police surgeons; I think there are some police surgeons who, from long years of experience, are certainly in the rank of skilled pathologists, and I think they could justify the title. 6242. Ordinary medical men of special experience you consider competent ?— Yes, I think in country districts they would be competent. 6243. But such a gentleman as a divisional police surgeon would probably be unable to undertake com- plicated bacteriological and histological investigations ? — Yes, I think quite so; both bacteriological and histological work require every day and constant work at it. 6244, With regard to the personal expenses of pathologists in making the post-mortem for the coroner, is it a fact that these expenses are often more than the fee which is allowed for the post-mortem ?—I think that would rather depend upon the individual. I do not think in my experience it is necessary that it should be. If one has to go long distances and long journeys and so on, the expenses would necessarily rise very much, but under ordinary circumstances in the London district I think one can keep within the fee, though it might certainly come up to it. 6245. There would be very little left >—Yes, there would be very little left. I may state that, in my own experience, by some careful economy, I pay away some- where between a quarter and a half of what I make in coroner’s fees in actual expenses, and that does not include the private histological work which I do for my own sake in the elucidation of many of these cases. 6246. Do you find in coroner’s cases that very often indeed, the inquest is adjourned, and you have to attend.on several occasions ?—I have not had a great experience of adjourned inquests, but I have had to attend a few. I have never had to attend more than one adjournment. 6247. Not more than twice altogether P—No. Per- sonally, I am very strongly of opinion that for each attendance there should bea fee. Attendance on an adjourned inquest takes one away from one’s own work just as much as on the first occasion, and it is not fair that one should be called upon and get nothing for it. 6248. Do you know whether the reason why a number of names were withdrawn from the county council list of pathologists was because it was felt by the medical profession that the fee was quite inadequate reasons that certainly was brought to my notice. As far as I could understand, the question was almost wholly one of fees. 6249. But there are several hospital pathologists who, in spite of the inadequacy of the fee, wish to help the coroner as far as possible, and have sent their names in, or have kept their names on the list ?—Yes, certainly there are. I am afraid I do not know how many, but I am one of them. 6250. You referred to the treatment of the dead bodies after making the post-mortem examination. In order that the body shall present as natural an appear- ance as possible, it is necessary, is it not, that it should be most carefully sewn up and cleaned —It requires a skilled man to do such work. Unskilled work, such as one sees, produces appearances which really make one shudder. : 6251. In some cases, where there is dropsy, unskil- ful treatment of the body after a post-mortem might cause a large quantity of offensive fluid to escape from the coffin ?—Quite so. 6252. Has it been your experience that the attend- ants at the mortuaries are sufficiently skilled to treat the body properly after a post-mortem examination ?—I think, honestly, I can say no to that. I know of only one attendant who certainly has skill in restoring the body properly, that is to say, reverently and decently, and to make such a body presentable for anybody to come to view. 6253. That is one of the reasons why you take your own assistant with you ?—Yes, because I will not let a body I have examined ever return or be seen by the relatives unless I am satisfied with it. 6254. When a medical man fills in a death certifi- cate, do you consider it very desirable that he should satisfy himself as to the fact of death ?—yYes, I do, although I admit that it is a very difficult thing to put into practice among the poor.