Second report of Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring into the housing of the working classses : Scotland.
- Great Britain. Royal Commission on Housing of the Working Classes
- Date:
- 1885
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Second report of Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring into the housing of the working classses : Scotland. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.
129/352
![entitled to any land either in fee simple or fee farm or for any term of years whereof not less than 80 may be unexpired ?—I think you will find that there is some limitation there. 24.542. A limitation is ])roposed by the Treasury as to the proportion that they would lend ?—What class of persons is that to build for : is it for artizans, because labourers are another thing. 24.543. (The Chairman.) This Act has reference to dwellings for the labouring classes?—Quite so, but it does not refer to artizans. 24.544. I think this would be held to include any- thing ?—I applied some years ago for a loan from the Local Government Board, and I asked whether I could not work any of these Acts, and I was told distinctly that I could not, or I would have been only too liappy to do it. 24.545. {3Ir. Gray.) This Act has undoubtedly been Avoi'ked by private individuals ?—For artizans. 24.546. {The Chairman.) I think labouring classes would be held to include artizans, because the Act has been put in force in vaiious towns in Ireland, and no steps have been taken as a matter of fact to confine the benefits of it to artizans in a limited sense of the term. There are a few such houses built in Dublin, and Waterford, and Limerick, and other places, and it has not been strictly limited to artizans i'—Possibly it may be worked in that way, but I was certainly under the impression that it did not include artizans. I certainly applied to know whether it could be worked, and I was told that it could not. 24.547. {Mr. Gray.) But your difficulty with reference to the general Act, the Artizans Dwellings Act is that it only enables clearances to be eflected ?— Practically that is all it does. Of course we can rebuild Avith the sanction of the Local Government Board, but then there are many difficulties in the way of working the thing. There is appeal after appeal, and charge xipon charge. 24.548. Then the difficulty with reference to the Act of 1868, which belongs to the other set of Acts, is that if you go to the owner he calls upon you to do the work yourself, and to charge the property ?—Yes, and the property mJght not be worth it. Then again an objection almost stronger than that, is that even if houses were demolished and the land cleared, the places altogether for a sanitary house. 24.549. A difficulty with reference to putting the ordinary sanitaiy law into operation in I'ural districts appears to be that it simply secures the destruction of the house without providing for its re-building ?— Exactly so. 24.550. Then the two sets of remedies from, which you derive most hope, is legislation, which would still further facilitate the erection of labourers dwellings in the country to prevent this congestion in the towns, and of giving to the representatives of the entire people in the towns more effective control over matters of this kind ?—Yes, and I certainly believe in giving inducements to landowners to do it themselves if they had not this power at present, which I think they have not. 24.551. They have the power, I think, but the Treasury insists on a payment of 4j per cent., and that in the case of individuals it costs more than that; they only give half the money ?—That is a consider- able restriction. Many of the landowners cannot do it if they only set half the money. The witne 24.552. My impression is that by the rules which Mr. Parliament had made, while they would advance the ^- ^ Metge. whole to a public body on the security of the rates, ^ ^ they would only give to the individual one-half?—A limited owner will not advance one-half. In my own case I have spent a great deal of money in that sort of work, and I feel that every 100/. that 1 spend is more or less lost to those who come after me. There- fore, unless you have full power of borrowing and charging, you cannot carry that out. I could not do it. 24.553. It would appear in Navan as the matter stands, even supposing that they were given facilities, they are too apathetic or too timid, or there is some reason why the existing governing body would not be inclined to undertake it ? ■—-At present it is so, certainly. 24.554. The franchise is very limited, and the number of electors is very small ?—Very small, and they can bring pressure to bear upon them. 24.555. You said that they were practically self- elected ?—That is the general feeling. We hear nothing and know nothing until the elections are over, and the same men are in year after year, except that if a man is energetic he is at once put oft. 24.556. With reference to the poor rate, the system of levying the poor rate on very small houses, and of making a separate rate for a town distiict into which the poor are driven appears to you to increase the present bad condition of affairs ?—Undoubtedly so. 24.557. Would union rating give considerable relief?—Wonderful relief, that and the amalgamation of unions v.diich would also tend that way. 24.558. It would take from the landowners any temptation that they have now to clear their land, would it not ?—Undoubtedly. 24.559. And to prevent mere settling on their lands who sooner or later might become charg;eablc to their district ?—LTndoubtedly. 24.560. {Mr Jesse Collings.) What is the occu- pation of the people at Navan ?—A good many of them are employed in mills about Navan, the otht-rs are labourers. 24.561. Are any number of them employed on the land ?—Yes, at harvest time, they are called out of the towns, and they go out to work, and that is their chief occupation. 24.562. And the laind still uses them as labourers that sent them into the towns to live ?—Yes, Mr. Gray asked me what remedy I would suggest as to the sites. Another remedy that I would suggest is that the authorities should have power to select sites out- side. There is a vast amount of unoccupied ground round about the town. 24.563. {The Chairman.) Do you mean com- pulsory powers ?—Yes. 24.564. We have made a recommendation in the case of England which, if it was extendeii to Ireland, woidd, I think, meet that difficulty ?—I throw that out as a suggestion. 24.565. {Mr. Gray.) As to open spaces, 1 suppose the Public Parks Act would not apply to so small a district ?—No. There is any amount of land to be had. 24.566. You would propose, I suppose, that the Public Parks Act which gives power to clear spaces, should be extended to small towns ?—Yes, certainly. withdrew. Mr. Edward Spencee, M.A.,, re-called. 24.567. {The Chairman.) We have re-called you in consequence of an application made by Lord Bra- bazon to have you recalled on his behalf. It has come to your knowledge that Lord Brabazon's conduct in opposing a particular Bill has been called in question ? —Yes. 24.568. Would you like to make any statement on his behalf with regard to that ?—Lord Brabazon is anxious that the Commissioners should understand that his opposition to the application of the Eathmines ^ Spelu Commissioners was not grounded exclusively on M.A. selfish reasons, but that in his opinion and that of his witnesses the proposed site was not the most suitable site, and that a site comprising above eight acres of laud belonging to Mr. Bolton, one of the Commissioners, was an infinitely better site, and that](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b24398329_0129.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
