Second report of Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring into the housing of the working classses : Scotland.
- Great Britain. Royal Commission on Housing of the Working Classes
- Date:
- 1885
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Second report of Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring into the housing of the working classses : Scotland. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.
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![Mr. Alderman IF. Meagher, M.P., Professor C.A. Cameron, M.D., F.R.C.S.I., Mr. J. Beveridge, Mr. P. Neville, C.E., Mr. S. Hartij. 23 May 1885. amongst other classes. Anything opposed to natural practices appears to be looked upon with great aver- sion amongst the lowest class. To say that incest or anything of that kind never did occur would be say- ing what is contrary to the experience of all ages ; but that anything like that is common in Dublin I do not believe. 22.369. {To Mr. Beveridge.) As to the effect of the limited boundary upon the matter which we are now investigating, we have had it in evidence that one of its effects has been to squeeze into the city the bulk of the working class population, although their occu- pation may take tliem outside the city during the day; are there, in .your opinion, any other effects of the restricted boundaries of the city which bear upon this question—There are a great many considerations bearing upon that, as set forth in the Report of the Municipal Boundaries Commission. That commis- sion very strongly recommended upon all general grounds that the boundaries should be extended so as to take in what is really the modern city of Dublin. At present the artizans and labourers of the whole of that modern city are concentrated within the existing municipal boundary, so that all the obligations that they bring with them in the way of medical relief or contributious of the city to reformatories and indus- trial schools, and all that kind of thing, really fall upon the persons who hold property within the exist- ing municipal boundary. 22.370. All the hospitals are situated within the municipal boundary, are they not ?—All the hospitals are within the boundary, with the exception of two outside, to which the corporation gives grants. 22.371. Does the corporation give considerable grants to those hospitals out of the municipal funds ? —Yes, about 4,600/. a year. 22.372. Speaking from your personal knowledge, while there is an immigration of the poorer classes into Dublin, is there an emigration of the wealthier classes, from the inside to the outside, for instance, from Dublin to Pembroke ?—It is pointed out in the lieport of the Boundary Commission that that process has been going on for years. In fact, both connnis- sions pointed out that the depopulation of Dublin of the better classes has been going on for a great num- ber of years, and the result was that the better houses became vacant and are now tenanted by the Avorking class population. The Municipal Boundaries Com- mission in summing up their recommendations upon the subject stated, that in their opinion the extension of the boundary had been deferred too long; but al- thougli that commission reported in 1881 nothing has yet been done. It is out of the power of the corpora- tion to promote a Bill for that purpose, because we have no powers, such as those possessed by English municipalities, to apply the funds of the city in pro- moting Bills in Parliament. If a Bill such as that Avhich you have endeavoured to get through the House this ses.sion were passed of course it would leave the municipality free to move in tiie matter. Meanwhile it is not open to the municipality to do that. Several representations have been made to the Government, and in 18H3 a. memorial was presented, a copy of which I can put in (it is very brief) which summarises the main recommendations of both those commissions. It is paper No. 228 of 18S3. 22.373. While this exodus of the better classes goes on the result is that those who remain within the city are less able to bear the necessary taxation ?—No doubt. 22.374. Because the wealthier classes escape outside while the poorer classes are liemnied in ?—No doubt. There are some wards in the city Avhich, if they had to bear their own charges for everything, wotild cer- tamly not be able to bear them. There being a ])ortiou of the city wealthy, such as the neighbourhood of Fitzwilliam Square and Monntjoy Square, the city is able to go on ; but the taxation is very high and there is no more reason why the people of Fitzwilliam Square and Monntjoy Square should contribute to these general charges than the people of Pembroke and Ratbmines, who have just as much advantage from the labour of all these people, and from any civic im- provements that are carried on. 22.375. Have you known cases of business firms who, when they have had occasion to change their original premises, have removed from one side of this arbitrary line, just a little distance across the line, and have so escaped taxation ?—There was a very notable instance of that referred to before the Municipal Boundaries Commission, in the case of Mr. Bolton, a builder, in a very extensive way of business. His premises were just inside the canal in Richmond Street, and he moved immediately over the bridge to premises adjoining the canal outside the city, and you can see his workmen streaming into his premises every morning and passing out again in the evening. By that change of position he escapes perhaps a rate of Is. in the £ on his premises, and at the same time he has all the advantages of the city; all his timber and stone are drawn through the city to his works, and all his workmen live in the city, and if they get knocked up they go to our hospitals. But the township in which he lives pays no contribution to the hospitals, and if the child of one of his Avorkmen goes to a re- formatory or industrial school the city has to bear the burden. 22.376. Do you not think that the townships would resist very strenuously any attempt to set right the condition of affairs that you have mentioned ?—There is no doubt of that. In Rathmines this year the poor rate is only Is. 2d. ; the district immediately inside is paying 2s., and the district to the north of the river is paying 2s. 6c?. Then in the districts beyond Rathmines again there is a very high poor rate, and meauAvhile this place which has practically no Avorkmen's houses in it has all the advantage of the labour, and does not bear its due proportion of the burdens entailed by a labouring class. 22.377. Do you not think that so many persons being deeply interested in the maintenance of things as they are, even supposing that the corporation were to get power to promote a Bill, it would result in a desperate, extremely costly, and prolonged contest before this could possibly be settled, if it were attempted to be dealt with by private legislation ?— I very much fear that it would. Of course if the present legaV disabilities Avere removed, and if the Corporation of Dublin were placed upon the same basis as .English corporations in regard to taking proceedings to obtain parliamentary powers, it would come into the contest with a considerable borough fund to maintain such proceedings ; but I have no doubt Avhatever that the owners of house property in the townships outside Avould subscribe very largely to the expenses, and that a very costly parliamentary contest Avould be the result. Of course it would eventually end in a compromise. 22.378. There Avas a great Improvement Bill passed for Dublin in the year 1849, Avas there not ?—There Avas. 22.379. That in fact is the basis of our municipal svstem here to-day ?—Yes. 22,380. What kind of Bill was that ?—Bills had been promoted for some years, and eventually the Government themselves brought it in as a jjublic Bill. 22.381. Was that in consequence of abortive Bills having been introduced year after year by private individuals or local bodies ?—Yes ; one of the sections of that Act contains a provision for the payment of the costs of the two preceding futile iittempts to obtain the necessary powers. 22.382. There is a poAver under your Acts of Parliament, is there not, to give certain abatements of taxation in the case of houses of low valuation ?— There is, in the case of the improvement rate. 22.383. The corporation have never put that poAver into operation yet, liaA'e they ?—They have never put it into force. The corporation haA'c memorialised the Government to pi-omote a Bill dealing Avith the collec- tion of rates in the city. The collection of rates in](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b24398329_0058.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
