Second report of Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring into the housing of the working classses : Scotland.
- Great Britain. Royal Commission on Housing of the Working Classes
- Date:
- 1885
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Second report of Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring into the housing of the working classses : Scotland. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.
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![they might not lease it with the condition that that particular class of buildings sliould be put on the land ? —In 1876, immediately after the passing of the Act of 1875, Mr. Dwyer G-ray brought under the notice of the corporation the powers given by that Act, and he got the corporation to commit themselves to a declaration that they would be willing to proceed to clear areas under that Act, provided that a company could be called into existence who would build as soon as the areas were cleared. Owing to the stir that was made at that time the Artizans' Dwellings Company was formed in 1876, and when the corporation pro- ceeded to consider their scheme they had conferences with the Artizans' Dwellings Company, which even- tuated in two sites being selected which both the corporation and the company considered suitable for sucli a scheme, and that has resulted in the successful exjaeriment of the Coombe area. 22.442. Did the corporation lease the land to this company ?—Yes, 22.443. And did they lease it to the company on more favourable terms than they could have got for the laud in the open market, if it had not been saddled with any such condition ?—Certainly, because the rent is very low. 22.444. Then they gave a subsidy in the shape of the reduced rent to house the poor ?—-Yes; and the company were bound to lay out 20,000/. in providing dwellings for a certain specified number of people. 22.445. Do you think that if, subject to proper security and safeguard, any persons or company were ■willing to put up dwellings for the working classes, and if they had the power of compulsorily acquiring sites from unwilling owners, without paying an ex- ces.sive compensation, that Avould tend to facilitate the housing of the poor in these outlying suburbs of Dublin. You have stated that in Pembroke and those outlying townships there is a tendency to destroy liouses which are already existing and used by the working classes in order to raise the residential cha- racter of the neighbourhood ?—I do not think I gave that evidence ; it was Dr. Cameron who said that. 22.446. And we have also had evidence from one of you that the working classes actually go out of Dublin to their work in these suburbs, and then come back to Dublin to be housed. Supposing there were a company, ready and willing at the present time to put up suitable dwellings for the working classes in these suburbs, and only prevented fi'om doing so by the impossibility of acquiring a site, do you think tliat, probably, the housing of the poor would be simplified and the work made easier if, subject (as 1 say) to suitable provisions and checks, these persons or companies were enabled to get compulsory powers to acquire land in the suburbs ?—I would rather have the compulsory power in the hands of the local autho- rity ; but I think there ought to be such a compulsory power. 22.447. Do you think that either the commissioners or local board of Rathmines or Pembroke would be a local body likely to use such a power ?—The commis- sioners of Rathmines have attempted a scheme this year, and have failed owing to the opposition of the owner in fee. 22.448. {Mr. Jesse Collings.) They would have used the power if they could have got it ?—Yes. 22.449. {Mr. Lyulfh Stanley.) Do you think there would be any objection to the local authority, if they were willing, having the power, or an individual having it if they were not ?—I see no objection to that; but I have not considered it. 22.450. Do you think that this power on the part of a large landowner to keep land back from the market may lead to serious inconvenieuce in the matter of housing the jjoor ?—Yes. 22.451. And in your experience, in Dublin, has it already led to that ?—Yes, I have given an instance of it. 22.452. {Mr. Jesse Collings to Dr. Cameron.) In reply to Mr. Gray you stated that it would bo a good thing if these large good houses in Heni'ietta Street and other parts were taken and converted into houses which would be fit for the working classes. Do you not think that that could be done better by the local authority than by any other body ?—I think it could be done either by a company acting on jdiilanthropic lines, that is to say, by some such company as tlie Artizans' Dwellings Company, or by the ^munici- j)ality. 22.453. What security would you have in the case of a company that they would not raise the rent, and rackrent, and get competition?—No security what- ever, except the character of the persons forming the company, if it were formed on those lines. 22.454. You would have no legal security ?—No. 22.455. But in the case of the corporation doing that they would have no object to rackrent ?—They would not. I think the corporation could do it. 22.456. But they would not have the inducement to make a profit out of the poorer classes as I'egards rent in the same way as a private company would ? 22.457. Can that security be obtained by placing that power in the hands of any other body than the coiporatiou ?—I do not think it can. 22.458. Then your opinion, I may take it, is that inasmuch as corporations have not the necessity ol making any more profit than would secure the rate- payers, or that, if they did, that profit would belong to the town generally, their operation with regard to the construction of these dwellings would be more favourable in the long run to the poorer classes, as regards rent, than that of any other agency ?—Yes; but I should say further that, in order not to enter into what I might term injurious competition with general house owners and the Artizans' Dwellings Company, I think that the corporation should restrict its operations to the construction of houses suitable only to the underpaid class of the population, such as labourers. I certainly would not be disposed to see the corporation undertaking to house the artizan class at all ; I Avould prefer leaving that to the Artizans' Dwellings Company and to private enterprize. 22.459. Bat you would allow the corporation to intei-fere in all cases in which ihe middleman conducts his operations ?—Undoubtedly. 22.460. And that, so far as Dublin is concei ned, ^vou■ld cover a veiy large area, and would affect a very large proportion of the population, would it not ?— Yes, a very large one, as you see by the schedule. 22.461. {The Chairman to Alderman Meagher.) I believe you have some papers which you desire to put in ?—I merely desired to make some statements, which I find have been anticipated, showing the con- stitution of the Public Health Committee. I have been elected chairman of the Public Health Committee for this year, and I wish to inform the Commission that the Public Health Committee consists of 15 members of the corporation who are intended, so firr as possible, to represent the 15 wards into -which the city is divided for municipal purposes. The committee meet weekly, and sit from two to three hours. Special committees and sub-committees are frequently appointed to discharge various duties, to visit places, and to make re]3orts of their sanitary condition ; and there is a superintendent medical oflicer of health with 23 sub-officers. The committee receive reports from the sanitary staff, and sanction or direct their proceed- ings. The appointment of the sanitary inspectors is intrusted to the medical officer of health, as is also the appointment of the persons connected with tlie dis- infecting department. The requests of the medical officer of health are invariably acceded to, and his operations are never interfered with by the committee ; he is supported fully in his proceedings to enforce sanitary improvements in various ways. 22.462. Those are the ordinary duties of the com- mittees of town councils in England into which T think we need not go more in detail ?—Very well. I find that what I Avanted to represent to the Commis- sion has been anticipated by other witnesses. Mr.Alder)viin W. Meaglter, M.P., Professor C A. Cameron, M. D., F.R.C.S. I. Mr. J. Beueridge, Mr. P. Neville, C.E., Mr. S. Harly.](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b24398329_0061.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
