Report from the Select Committee on Aged Deserving Poor ; together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, and appendix.

  • Great Britain. Royal Commission on the Aged Poor
Date:
1899
Catalogue details

Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Report from the Select Committee on Aged Deserving Poor ; together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, and appendix. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

    124/466 page 74
    12 June 1899.] Mr. Monro. [Continued. Chairman—continued, maximum of 10s. a week. You say in the state- ment with, which you have been good enough to furnish me, that each pensioner has at present 5s. a week ?—Yes, that is so. 1268. Why are the pensions fixed at the mini- mum ?—Well, I think it is really because there are so very many applications on each occasion for a pension, that they try to spread it over as large a number as possible. 1269. Supposing you had sufficient funds at your disposal to give all the reserving applicants more than 5s. a week, should you do so?—Yes, we should do so, no doubt, and no doubt also there would be some graduated seals of pension instead of the present dead scale of 5s. for everybody at whatever age they may be,—such as, say 5s. a week for a peapson of 60, and 7s. 6^^. for a person of 70 and 10s. for a person of 80. 1270. As a rule, what do you suppose a person could live upon at Hampstead; how much a week to live in decent comfort ?—-Ten shillings a week. 1271. So that, as H;hey are bound by your practice to have 5s. a week of their own, all your pensioners have that amount?—I hope so. 1272. In what way do they live,—in houses of their own, by themselves, or with relatives?— Some of them live in rooms—artizans' dwellings, and some live with their relations. 1273. As a rule, when there is a vacancy, how many applications do you have ?—About 30. 1274. In the typical schemes, which I spoke of, and which have been submitted to us by the Commissioners, I find a clause to this effect: The pensioners shall be selected under the following conditions, after full investigation of the character and circumstances of the appli- cants and inquiry whether they have shown reasonable providence, and to what extent they may reasonably expect assistance from relations or others. I do not find any precisely similar clause in your scheme, but I suppose you make your inquiry on similar lines ?—We make our inquiry veiy much on similar lines, and some of our questions here which are asked in the ad- ministration go to that. 1275. Is the inquiry usually made by the committee themselves, or by members of it, or how is it made?—The inquiry is simply made by the applicants filling upi the form in which they are asked these 10 questions, and no further personal inquiry is made after the committee have gone through the applications unless they consider it is necessary to do so, when it will be done either by myself or by the Charity Organi- sation. 1276. That is to say, you get in their replies to these 10 questions, and then they have to be verified?—They have to be verified in a sense, because if the committee themselves, or some of them, did not know the case, and did not know the case well, they would refer to me or to the Charity Organisation Society to verify the state- ments made. 1277. The committee must be satisfied that the statements are true ?—Yes, they satisfy themselves that the statements are true. 1278. What happens as a rule in practice, I suppose, is this, that the members of the com- mittee having a great deal of local knowledge Chairman—continued, are generally able to say for themselves or to find out that those things are true?—That is 60. 1279. Then if any further information ia required, the inquiry is conducted by you?—It is conducted by me sometimes and sometimes by the Charity Organisation Society, Hampstead Branch. 1280. Do you have any difficulty in ascertain- ing the. truth of these statements?—No, I do not think I have. 1281. Have you often had occasion to call in the Charity Organisation Society?—-Sometimes the inquiry has been conducted entirely by the Charity Organisation Society, and sometimes entirely by myself. I think the Charity Organi- sation Society has perhaps more often con- ducted an inquiry than I have. 1282. And when the. Charity Organisation Society are called in, do you find them of real assistance to you?—-Yes, they are of assistance; I would hardly go the length of saying of real assistance; I think very great care is required in these personal investigations and inquiries, and that really somebody who has been to a certain extent trained in obtaining evidence alone can really properly do it. 1283. When these inquiries are held by the committee themselves they are held whenever there happens to be a vacancy, I suppose?— Yes. 1284. And they hear all the applications at once ?—They do. 1285. Do they sit once or more for the purpose?—That would just depend on circum- stances ; they would sit more than once if necessary. 1286. As a rule, how long does their inquiry take?—About three hours. 1287. That is to say, that the claims of 10 applicants can be disposed of in an hour, as a rule ?—Yes. 1288. And satisfactorily?—Yes, I think thoroughly satisfactorily. 1289. Are there many more applicants de- serving of pensions, and to whom you would give them, if you had the means, than you are usually able to supply?—I think I may say, speaking quite roughly, of course, that we generally have six that we should like to give away where we can only give away one. 1290. You attach, I understand, very great importance to the local knowledge of the members who have to conduct those inquiries ? —Yes. 1291. Would you go so far as to say that you consider it essential to the good administration of a scheme for pensions?—Well, I think it is a very important element. 1292. Could it be conducted by a clerk, assisted by the Charity Organisation Society, without this local knowledge on the part of the members ?—I think it would not be so well con- ducted. 1293. So far as it goes are you prepared to say to the Committee that you consider your scheme has worked well, and been of benefit to the parish ?—As regards the pensions? 1294. Yes ?—Yes, I do. I do not think it is by any means perfect, but I think it has done a good deal of good. I have known of cases where I think
    digitised image 1
    digitised image 2
    digitised image 3