Report from the Select Committee on Aged Deserving Poor ; together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, and appendix.

  • Great Britain. Royal Commission on the Aged Poor
Date:
1899
Catalogue details

Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Report from the Select Committee on Aged Deserving Poor ; together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, and appendix. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

    126/466 page 76
    12 June 1899.] Mr. Munro. [Continued. Sir James Banhin. Hampstead Charity Orgaiiizaition Society, whicih is very active there, and they do give pensions. 1828. But there is no regular pension fund ?— No. 1-329. Do you consider that the purchase of an annuity would be a good test of thrift ?—Yes, I think so. I^-'IO. And an anniiity purchased by an appli- cant, I suppose, would be taken as a test of hav- ing done something towards earning a. pension? —No doubt. 1831. Do you consider that your pension sys- tem keeps a certain number off the rates who would come on the Poor Law if it were not for your pension sj^stem ?—Yes. I do. Sir Fortescue Flannery. 1332. You told us that the eligibility consists in sickness, accident, and old age. I take it from your evidence since that practically the scheme has evolved itself into an old age pension scheme; the majority of the applicants are disabled by old age?—The majority are cei-tainly, but, of course, every now and then the pension is given to some one who has met with an accident, say, lost two or three fingers off a hand, or something of that sort. 1333. How much above the 55. a week would disqualify a man ?—Well, as I say, there is no regular rule, but I should say IO5. a week would. 1334. Ten shillings a week woxild disqualify a man ?—Yes. 1335. Is the cost of administration of your system very great; I should like to have the cost; you administer 299/., 23 pensions of 13/. a year: what is the cost of the administration of that?—I do not think I have ever taken out that piart from the cost of the rest of the ad- ministraition of the charity. I Cian say ait once that the cost would be very slight, because a great deal of it is done voluntarily. 1336. The committee are voluntary ?—The committee are voluntary, and the persons who actually hand the money over to the pensioners all do it voluntarily. 1337. I was going to ask you that: how is the money conveyed to the pensioners ?—The money is conveyed to the pensioners weekly by visitors. There iswhatwecall a visitor for each pensioner, and it is conveyed weekly to the pensioner who signs a receipt for the money in a book each week. That is all done voluntarily. 1338. The pension is brought to the pen- sioner ?—Yes. Mr. Hedderwich. 1339. AVhat area does yoxir charity cover geographically, does it cover more than one parish ?—No, only the parish of Hampstead. 1340. Do you consider that boards of guardians would not be as good authorities to find out the character or qualifications of applicants as the committee you have?—I should think so. 1341. Or parish councils, do you think they would do as well ?—Well, I have no experience of parish councils myself at all. 1342. But you lay g*reat stress on the local knowledge of the authority whatever it may be ? —I do. Mr. Hedderwich-—continued. 1343. Do I imderstand you to say that, as far at all events as Hampstead is concerned, the 5s. that your charity gives, unless it be supplemented by some private means, is insufficient to keep the pensioner out of the workhouse ?—Oh, yes ; certainly. 1344. Might I go so far as to say that in your opinion less than IO5. would not be a possible means of subsistence outside the workhouse?— That is my opinion; these people have to pay 3^. ()fZ. or 45. for a room. 1345. You understand quite what I mean; I am asking your opinion if it would be viseless to give ai person less than IO5. to maintain himself, imless he had some other means of subsistence? —I think so. 1346. That applies also to the district over which your charity applies ?—Only to that district; I know of no other. Mr. A. K. Loyd. 1347. You remember the Camden Trust during the whole period in which this scheme has been in operation—since 1880?—Yes. 1348. Do you recollect the abuses in respect of doles to which Sir Henry Longley testified before one of the inquiries as to giving them away all round and getting rid of them some- how ?—That used to be so. 1349. Did that exist in Hampstead ?—I do not remember it in Hampstead in my time at all. 1350. I do not know whether this scheme was stai-ted to escape from those abuses ?—No, this scheme was started on the amalgamation of two charities which had been administered separately before: the one was called the Wells Charity and the other the Camden Charity; they were amalgamated and this scheme started. 1351. The object of this 5'5. limit as I under- stand is this—that having only a limited sum at your disposal you are obliged to select those persons who from some source or another can bring something for themselves towards meeting your pension ?—^That is so. 1352. And with regard to the others you do not say whether they are more or less deserving; they have to be provided for by the Poor Law ? —Yes. 1353. Apart from that 55. limit, you could not work your 300/. to do any practical good at all ? —Not to do so much good, certainly. 1354. Perhaps I ought to say that you get the most good out of your 300/. by confijiing it to those people who from some source, assistance pssibly from others, can bring 55. to meet your 5s. ?'—We think so, yes. 1355. The statement that you made to my honourable friend on the left, that 10s. is the least on which a person could live in Hampstead, is taking into consideration the cost of a I'oom, rent, in Hampstead ?—^Yes, it would alittle differ in different parts of Hampstead, but I am taking the average. 1356. There is from 3s. Q>d. to 4s. a week for the room ?—Yes. 1357. The living, I suppose, would be also higher in Hampstead than in a country district? —Very much higher. 1358. Then we must not take the 10s. limit as applying to an agricultural district?—I know nothing
    digitised image 1
    digitised image 2
    digitised image 3