Eleventh report from the Select Committee on Estimates : together with the minutes of evidence taken before sub-committee E and appendices, session 1950-1951: regional hospital boards and hospital management committees.
- Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. Select Committee on Estimates
- Date:
- [1951]
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Eleventh report from the Select Committee on Estimates : together with the minutes of evidence taken before sub-committee E and appendices, session 1950-1951: regional hospital boards and hospital management committees. Source: Wellcome Collection.
99/348 page 59
![8 February, 1951.] [Continued. Mr. Powell suggested, a five-year period of capital budgeting instead of a one-year period? Do you think on balance it would be to the advantage of your Board that you should attempt to forecast capital estimates for five years and be tied down to five years, or would you prefer the present system of estimating only for one year subject to this difficulty, which we understand, that you are unable to carry over any amount you have not expended?—TI should prefer the present system. Our real trouble is this loss of money which we ‘were unable to spend. We want a carry-over, if we can get it. Chairman. 670. It is rather late to start on revenue expenditure as we shall have to stop at six o’clock, but we might make a start. First of all the present method which governs the control of revenue expenditure, from your memorandum, appears to be what might be called the Civil Service method of estimating. Would that be fair? —The local authority method is just the same. The local authority method and the Civil Service method is practically the same. Mr. Thomas Reid. 671. It is the cash system?—Yes. Chairman. 672. On page nine of your memorandum you say with regard to estimates, ‘‘ The existing system has the following dis- advantages”, and then you set out three subheads, the first of them being this, “ Hospital management committees do not know the amount of approved expenditure before the commencement of the financial year ”’?—That is the position. That is a fact. We do not get our approvals till well after the Budget. The financial year com- mences on the Ist April. 673-4. In the second subhead you say you find difficulty owing to your having unspent balances of either capital or revenue at the end of a year, and, thirdly, you say that if estimates could be on a block basis it would facilitate your work. ! think that is paraphrasing it accurately?—In effect, yes. What we say is this: a hospital management committee should make an estimate; if we approve that estimate, having discussed it with the hospital management committee, we should forward it to the Minister; if the Minister approved it he should place at our disposal that sum of money. We would control the expenditure of that sum of money, and we should be allowed to vary it between various equipment or to save on some of the items. That is what we are trying to do, and that is what we say is intelligent planning. There is nothing new about that; that point has been raised with the Minister on many occasions. We 10894 have constant conferences with the Minister, and it has been discussed there. Mr. Diamond. 675. Could you tell us, as it has been discussed, what main arguments are put against your suggestions?—The one which it is impossible to overcome; it is against Government practice. Chairman. 676. Have they advanced any argument on the merits that has weighed with you and made you feel you should stop?— The only way I can answer that is by saying that having regard to the increases in the estimates the Treasury took a hand in it, and they have introduced some new methods this year. 677. Are those more in accordance with what you suggest?—-They are more drastic than what we suggest. 678. I realise that they are likely to be financially drastic, but in fact are they nearer to the system of maximum grant? —No. The two items they have introduced are really exercising a much tighter control over the expenditure of management com- mittees than heretofore. Mr. Diamond. 679. By the Treasury or by the Ministry? —Yes. 680. A tighter detailed control?—Yes. In other words, if the estimate amounted to £100.000 and that was approved by the Minister, what we should like to do would be to say, ‘“ We will exercise the control over the management committee in the expenditure of that money”, but now the Ministry has gone further and said, “‘ Not only must you not exercise any control at all in the way of approving departures from one item to another, but it must be done by us. The management committee must apply to us for any such authority ”. Miss Ward. 681. It is cutting the regional board out? —It is cutting the regional board out. Chairman. 682. I think this might be a convenient moment at which to adjourn?—Before you do may I say this? I have brought with me one form of estimates prepared by the Sheffield No. 1 Hospital Management Com- mittee. If you have not seen those estimates before it is a very good example. It shows the amount of work which is involved in the preparation of these estimates. They have to be prepared in September, and the estimate has to. be prepared for a period which, as you know, expires 12 months the following March. We have all this work to do within a comparatively short period. I thought it D](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b32182478_0099.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
