Meeting with the deputy prime minister : vehicle emissions : government response / Select Committee on Science and Technology.

  • Great Britain. Parliament. House of Lords. Science and Technology Committee.
Date:
1997
Catalogue details

Licence: Open Government Licence

Credit: Meeting with the deputy prime minister : vehicle emissions : government response / Select Committee on Science and Technology. Source: Wellcome Collection.

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    Lord Porter of Luddenham contd.] (Mr Prescott) Yes. 6. Do you still hope to hold by that figure? If so, things have happened recently, there has been very much the coal lobby and almost the renewal of interest in coal as a fuel and this, of course, conflicts with that ambition of 20 per cent, does it not? (Mr Prescott) No, we do not think it does. Scientists tell us that we can achieve that target by looking at the other measures I have mentioned about greater efficiencies in energy, renewables, integrated transport policy, improving heating in housing. We are going to work out those plans and we will be presenting them in due course, probably next year. If I can come to the specific point, and it is a very good one, in regard to the gases. When I was talking to various countries about Kyoto and talking to the Japanese in particular they were very strong about expanding the basket of three gases into a basket of six. As you know, the EU were concentrating on three, of which one was CO2. Our target of 20 per cent is for CO2, let us be specific about that. Because we have now changed the Kyoto Agreement from a basket of three to a basket of six we have to look at the EU bubble again. If you look at Germany she is very much affected by that change to the basket of gases. Even within the European Community whatever the legal target, it will vary of course, there will be some countries having even a greater cut of something like 25 per cent; some countries will have a percentage increase of up to 40 per cent under the ten per cent target Europe has set itself or agreed to, and that is less than the 15 per cent usually talked of. In those circumstances that is going to make a change because these are legal targets we are talking about and we are bound to carry out the consequences of the legal targets and the basket of 6 gases may force changes to the national targets. It will not move us off, as the Prime Minister has said. This is our aim, to move to that 20 per cent. We intend to produce plans to achieve that. We are encouraged that the scientists say that is achievable. It gives me an opportunity to say that much of this argument is seen in pain rather than gain. There are an awful lot of benefits to achieve by this: greater energy efficiency, warmer homes, a better transport system. I do feel we have got to change the argument from one of if you have got a bigger target somehow you are taking bigger pain, I do not think it is that at all. I think we can march to greater efficiency and greater effectiveness which will be of benefit to all. We are not moving away from our 20 per cent and I think in due course we will be presenting our proposals to achieve not only the legal target but also the stretch target that we set ourselves. 7. When you talk about renewables, which we are hearing a lot about as an alternative, is this wind, water? (Mr Prescott) Yes, wind, water. 8. Is there something else? (Mr Prescott) No, it is the wind and the water. (Dr Fisk) Hydro-electric. (Mr Prescott) I do not know whether we can talk about solar in this country but we live in hope and climate change is probably making it easier! ‘ Lord Craig of Radley 9. Deputy Prime Minster, the historic nature of the Kyoto meeting will be achieved when the agreement has been ratified in these countries. (Mr Prescott) Yes. 10. Some commentators are very uncertain or unconfident that the United States Congress will ratify. (Mr Prescott) Absolutely. 11. Perhaps you could share with us your feelings about the situation in which there is a major country like the United States which fails to ratify and what Her Majesty’s Government’s attitude to your plans would then be, whether they would be modified or whether you would wish to continue anyway? (Mr Prescott) President Clinton says the present agreement will not be put to the Congress for agreement and a number of Congressmen have made it absolutely clear, and Senators, that they would not endorse the present agreement. I became aware of that very early on in the discussions prior to Kyoto when I was doing my travels talking to Vice President Gore and others. It did become clear that each nation had its own conditions for a target. If you went to Japan they told you about the gases and the way it had to be changed to get to their target. If you went to New Zealand it was about the forest and the sinks and you would have to get some measurement of that before they would agree it. If you went on to Australia it was land clearance. All of them had their conditions. If you went to India, as I did, and talked to the Indian Prime Minister, his view was that the developed nations have got to work out their own cuts first before they are asked to come on board. If you went to the States they said they are not going to accept that unless we have trading emissions, joint implementation, which is important to them as well, and also that there is an agreement that the Third World countries, the developing countries, are signed up to. There was an article in the draft text on voluntary targets for developing countries, which unfortunately failed at the last moment and threw the whole possible agreement into doubt which we were eventually able to correct. What has happened when I tried to develop the window of credibility was to deal with this point. There is a period of time from when we now agree and sign the legal targets, which I think is in March next year, and the period of time when ratification comes. Ratification will come after the election of the next President, and obviously Vice President Gore is likely to be one of the candidates, so that makes it clear that the environment and this agreement will be an important issue in that election. That gives you a time of about three or four years. That is why we coined the phrase the “window of credibility”. We must now start to pull together the ideas and the rules that will apply in the interpretation of the use of sinks, in trading emissions and joint implementation. You really have to have the rules, otherwise it would look as if they were just loopholes. There was great concern about this. I think in three or four years we could have worked it out enough to convince the Congress that this is a real deal, that Third World countries will have seen that the developed countries have started now to
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