Volume 2

First-[second] report of the Royal Sanitary Commission.

  • Great Britain. Royal Sanitary Commission
Date:
1869-1874
Catalogue details

Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: First-[second] report of the Royal Sanitary Commission. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

    191/418 (page 183)
    order them to do so, was 298 relieving officers and 18 other persons. We have sometimes taken advan- tage of the Sanitary Act to increase the number of relieving officers in the union, and Ave have done that to a very considerable extent in consequence of the sani- tary duties, so that we have helped the sanitary law by our power over the number of relieving officers. I cannot give the extent of the increase, but we had to fight one case in the Court of Queen's Bench by manda- mus. The guardians resisted us, saying that they did not want any sanitary measures and they did not want any more relieving officers ; but, however, the Court of Queen's Bench compelled them to appoint an addi- tional relieving officer, and since then we have not had much trouble upon that ground. 11.954. Although you have exercised this useful influence over the boards of guardians as sanitary authorities, have you no influence whatever over town sanitary authorities ?—We have no authority what- ever over towns governed by town councils or town commissioners. 11.955. And sanitary matters are more important connected with towns, than in perhaps all the county districts ?—Yes, certainly they are. 11.956. In cases of the Diseases Prevention Act being put into operation by Orders of Council, do the boards of guardians act as the sanitary authority on the councils ?—The boards of guardians act under the Diseases Prevention Act when an Order of Council is in force, and under the Diseases Prevention Act they are the sole authority in all places. 11.957. {Mr. Powell.) The Lord Lieutenant sets in motion that Act in Ireland, does he not ?—Yes ; the Lord Lieutenant sets the Act in motion by an Order in Council. 11.958. The Lord Lieutenant has the same power with respect to certain people, as the Privy Council has under an order ?—Yes, in that respect he has. 11.959. {Chairman^ Is it then the fact that sanitary matters are not properly attended to in the towns in Ireland ?—I believe that they are not much attended to as a general rule in the smaller towns, but there are many larger boroughs in wliich there is a great deal of action ; for example, in the city of Dublin there is a very attentive and vigilant action under the sanitary law. There are two medical officers of health. Dr. Mapother and the city analyst, Dr. Cameron, and the town council has a health com- mittee, which employs several officers, to whom the Metropolitan Police give their assistance ; and a great deal of action takes place in Dublin. In Cork, I believe, there is a good deal done in the same way ; but in the lower class of boroughs, such as Kilkenny, Clonmel and Cashel, and such boi'oughs, I believe that very little is done ; and also in towns under town commissioners it is very seldom, so far as I can gather, that they do very much ; but I am speaking only from what I hear, because we have no official in- formation about them except what we gather from our inspectors, when they are directed by the Lord Lieutenant to make inquiries ; but I think that Dr. Hill wou]d be able to give better evidence than I can about it, for he has taken part in many of those inquiries. I may add this, that all inspectors, with whom I have had an opportunity of speaking, are very strongly of opinion that those minor towns ought to be brought under the jurisdiction of the Poor Law lEommissioners, for the benefit of the inhabitants. •T 11,960, {Mr. Hibbcrt.) Is, not it the case that, with regard to. the incidence of taxation, it is different in the country districts to what it is in the towns, it being divided in the country districts between the landlord and the tenant, whereas in the towns it falls wholly upon the occupier ; would not that be a reason why so little has been done in the towns ?—Veiy possibly ; they are certainly very much indisposed to incur expense in the towns, and you are quite right in Baying that the occupiers in towns would bear the whole of those sanitary expenses, whereas when they fall upon the poor, rates, the charge is divided between the owner and the occupier. 11.961. {Chairman.) Is what is chiefly wanted to A.Power, Esq. make those Acts operative, more central inspection and power of control ?—I think that they should all i2 May 1870. be brought under some superintending government, whether it be desirable to consolidate the whole and to place the whole under one authority, I do not feel sufficiently to have come to any certam conclusion in my own mind, but if there were one sole authority it would be, I fancy, the Chief Secretary's office in Ireland. 11.962. I thought you suggested just now that the Poor Law Commissioners might have power not only over boards of guardians as sanitary authorities, but over small towns ?—-I think if things are not altered in some other direction, that ought to take place, that the small towns ought to be put under the Poor Law Commissioners. I do not think it would be Avise for them to undertake the whole of the large towns, nor perhaps is that necessary ; but I believe that they could undertake the small boroughs and those that are under town commissioners. 11.963. That is to say, they might undertake to superintend their sanitary functions as well as their poor law functions ?—Yes ; but in that case we ought to have much greater powers than we have at present, because, as I have been saying, the action of the boards of guardians under us has been influenced by us to some extent, but it has not been by any exercise of authority, and I think if a larger sphere of action were extended to the Poor Law Commis- sioners, they should have power to organise and to regulate. 11.964. That they should have both more legal power and a larger staff?—Yes, and a more extended jurisdiction. If we took the large towns, we should , want some different kind of inspectors, I apprehend ; we should want one or two engineering inspectors, for instance. 11.965. Would your inspectors be able to inspect the action of local boards in sanitary matters as weU as poor law matters ? ^ I contemplate if there is any extension of our jurisdiction, that it should be by transferring those functions, which are now exercised by town commissioners, to boards of guardians ; then it would come entirely under us. 11.966. Then you would separate the powers of the commissioners relating to towns improvement from what you may call sanitary functions, and put the sanitary functions into the hands of boards of guar- dians ?—Yes. 11.967. Leaving the towns improvement powers in the hands of the commissioners ?—Yes, certainly ; of course we could not assume the power of lighting and paving, and those kind of purposes which are generally exercised by municipal bodies. Another mude would be to have a different department super- intending those sanitary laws as regarded sewerage, , the supply of water, and the abatement of nuisances ; that might be conducted separately, I think, by a different branch ; and the police, I think, ought to be introduced. The police would be a very efficient machinery in representing the existence of nuisances ; Ave do not get any assistance from them at present through the country, although they are scattered all over the surface of it. 11.968. Do you think then that the Poor Law Com- mission might change its name, and undertake to superintend both the sanitary administration and the poor law administration as two sub-departments of a general commission ?—I dpjnot think it.need change its name. We haA'e, as I have said, two-thirds of the population at present under us for sanitary purposes, and it would merely be taking an additional jurisdic- tion over the towns. 11.969. I am supposing the jurisdiction to be made much more powerful, and therefore more operative, and to extend over the small towns and the large body of local authorities, so that the title of Poor LaAV Com- missioners would hardly describe their work. Do you think that they might be made a commission, under the Lord Lieutenant in Dublin, to superintend both the sanitary administration of the country and of the poor