[Reports and Appendices] of the Irish Milk Commission, 1911.

  • Great Britain. [Royal] Commission on the Irish Milk Supply.
Date:
1913
Catalogue details

Licence: In copyright

Credit: [Reports and Appendices] of the Irish Milk Commission, 1911. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

    1030/1108 (page 148)
    32088. As regards the testing of tuberculosis, I believe you do it gratis for tlie owner's stock'?— Yes. The Corporatiou supplies the tuberculin, and also pays the veterinary surgeon's fee. When we are called in to an outside herd—outside the city—I have the power to engage the owner's own veterinary sur- geon to do the testing for us, and we pay him a cer- tain regulation fee for testing the herd. We never pay him less than a guinea for one cow, and we never pay more than five guineas for the highest number he may test. 32089. You pay him that fee; he is paid by the city?—The city pays him that fee. 32090. Consequently, it is possible for the owner to know the condition of his stock, qua tuberculosis, free and for nothing?—Yes: free and for nothing. 32091. Lady Everard.—Anybody selling milk to the city?—This applies to anybody selling milk in the city. 32092. Professor Mettam.—And if his herd is out- side?—Inside or outside. There was a regulation up to ten miles outside, and we have never gone beyond that. But the city boundary has recently been ex- tended, and we are testing a herd really fifteen miles out, at Kingsbury, and we have a return this morning. Mr. -Olver, of Tamworth, has done the testing. The return shows that we have practically cleared that herd. We have only four or five cows that reacted formerly. We test them twice a year. At the last testing there were four or five cows affected. These cows have been retested, and are still affected. Tliose that passed the test the previous time have passed it again to-day. There were some few cows that were not tested previously: all that were tested and were free before are free still. 82093. As regards milk coming into the city; wlio takes samples at the station?—The veterinary assis- tant, if it is in connection with tuberculosis; if it is in connection with the quality of the milk otherwise, the inspector of nuisances. 32094. Samples of milk will be taken at the station for bacteriological investigation?—Yes, we do that. 32095. Any time one of the assistants might go down to the station and take a sample?—That is so, and when they are inspecting dairies. If they see any cows which are the least suspicious, they take one or more single samples, and if they deem it necessary a mixed sample, and send them in. That is a standiiig regula- tion; also we go to the station any time, if there is any herd under suspicion. 32096. Y'ou have a live stock market here?—YVs. 32097. Where cows are exposed for sale?—Y^es. 32098. Have you power to go into the market and secure any animal you suspect of tuberculosis?—It is rather difficult in connection with that. You have to deal with cows in various conditions. A veterinary inspector must not make a mistake. He therefore hesitates a little before he condemns a cow. We went in the other day and foimd a waster, and under the new Act (cruelty) we had that cow killed on the place. It proved not to be affected with tuberculosis, but with johne's disease. 32099. The mistake is pardonable, of course?—We thought so, as diagnosis by clinical examination is sometimes rather difficult. 32100. Lady Everard.—If you see a cow witli an obviously diseased udder, you take action?—Unques- tionably. 32101. Professor Mettam.—Have you the power of applying tuberculin in those cases where you think it is necessary for purposes of diagnosis; can you apply tuberculin to any cows you wish in going about your inspectorial duties?—If the Board of Agriculture Ordc]- had come into force that was prepared and issued, we would have, but at the present time we have not. We cannot go and api)ly the tuberculin test without (he owner's sanction. 32102. Mr. Wilson.—How long have you had the system of bacteriological examination of niilk in force? —Four or five years. 32103. Have you had any change in the percentage of tuberculous samples that you have discovered in the ordinary milk supply?—Yes, it has been reduced somewhat. We got fifteen per cent, to start with, and at the present time it is eight per cent. 32104. As high as that still?—Yes. _ 32105. The examination, of course, has been by inoculation by an expert bacteriologist at the Univer- sity?—Yes. 32106. When you get a sample of milk proved to be tuberculous. I think you told us that you traced it to the farm where the sample came from, and you some- times discovered the animal that was at fault at once; sometimes, on the other hand, you say, there may be several animals more or less suspicious in appearance, then you re-test the milk?—That is so. 32107. Would it not be a possible plan at that stage to applj' the tuberculin test to all suspicious animals on the farm which had produced ttie tuberculous sample of milk; have any animal clinically suspicious tested by tuberculin, and if she reacted get rid of her, instead of leaving the process for a fortnight or throe weeks, while the milk goes through the University again?—I don't think the tuberculin test in that case would really be serviceable, because it is not at all unusual for a real waster practically not to react, whereas those that are only slightly atfected might react. 32108. I was assuming you would get rid of the real waster straight off, but I invite you to say if there was a doubtful case—a case there was suspicion of— you would make up your mind without going through the process of actually testing the milk?—It is not at all infrequent to find a cow, even on post-mortem, whose udder scarcely shows any, or may show no actual tuberculous lesion, and yet she can supplv tuberculous milk. 32109. Barring any exceptionally bad cases, one has always to legislate for normal and not abnormal tests. Normally, the animal that was in a doubtful state of health, and probably was passing occasional tubercu- lous bacilli, would react to the test. I am wondering whether it was possible—whatever scheme you have got, and it seems to work very well—to eliminate these animals as the result of a bacteriological test?—If any- thing can be done to shorten the test, it ought to be done. The length of time in testing the milk is one of the difficulties in dealing with it; but I scarcely think that testing with the tuberculin test would help us very much, unless we were prepared, if they react, to have them killed, and to compensate the farmer for them, and that is a bigger undertaking than any- one contemplates. 32110. Oh, yes; I am assuming that?—It would mean, in the country, a very big thing. 32111. A very big sum of money?—A very big sum of money, taking the country all over. I am not pre- pared quite to advocate that each cow with a suspicious udder we took a sample of milk from ought to be killed because she reacted to tuberculin. 32112. Professor Mettam.—Tuberculosis gives you no criterion as to the point the lesion was manifested? —^Absolutely none. 32113. Mr. Wilson.—^We are limited to observed cases whose samples have been proved to be tubercu- lous, collected in the ordinary course. Your maximum figures are that about 8 per cent, of samples are at present tuberculous. Assuming, for the sake of argu- ment, that only one-tenth of the farms are producing tuberculous milk, you do not have to go to very many byres in order to get the head quarters of the great majority of the tuberculous samples coming into the market?—That is so, but we find a number of cows that may have some abnormality of the udder sus- picious of tubercle, and yet their milk is proved to be quite clear. We bring a sample back from them, because when we go out we are bound to get the offending cow, and we daren't leave any cows' milk untested whose udder is questionable. If it is a big Jierd, we divide it up, and take two or three general sectional as well as individual samples. If we happen by any chance to miss the cow, then we have, by our sectional samples, limited the suspected to a few cows, and then we can go back and get the cow with cer- tainty. It would be carrying it further than I tTiink I can advise, to have all cows killed which react to the tuberculin test. 32114. Professor Mettam.—What is done with the milk, Mr. Malcolm, of the cow that you have reason to suspect is tuberculous, but you can't say until you get your report from the bacteriologist?—If we really suspect any milk, we can stop the supply of that milk for use for the time being, but often there is nothing about the milk to warrant us, from any physical examination, in saying the supply must be stopped. If we can see anything abnormal about the milk, we at once say that milk must not come. 32115. Supposing you interdict the milk from a par- ticular cow, do you know what is done with that milk by the dairyman?—If we interdict the milk of a cow with tuberculosis, we would give a distinct instruction that it must not be used for anything—it must not be used for food for pigs, or anything like that, unless sterilised.