[Reports and Appendices] of the Irish Milk Commission, 1911.
- Great Britain. [Royal] Commission on the Irish Milk Supply.
- Date:
- 1913
Licence: In copyright
Credit: [Reports and Appendices] of the Irish Milk Commission, 1911. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.
1047/1108 (page 165)
![Dr. HAiiOT.i) ScuiiFiELD.— Noremb pi'f pared for the Home Congress on Tuberculosis. On page 9 the system is described pretty accurately. 32r)66. Sii- Stewaut ^YooDHorsE.—We shall be glad to have that. (Copies of the paper were handed to each of the Commissioners.) ^y^tll€ils.—I may just run over some points in this. I mention there that there is one month's delay in the case of a city cow and two months' delay for an out- side one. I give the number of city cows and outside cows that have been condemned. I may point out that this, of course, is no guide to the amoimt of tubercu- losis; outside as compared with the tuberculosis inside. We condemn more city cows in proportion, because our system of examination is much more perfect. The examination of the outside milk is haphazard, by means of taking samples of mixed mill; as they arrive at the station. 32567. Yon are guided simply and solely by the ■discovery of tubercle bacilli observed from the outside cows?—That is right. 32568. Lady EvEfiAi'.D.—Must your tuberculous bacilli pass through a guinea-pig before you are perfectly •certain?—You can sometimes get a direct microscopic result from the milk itself by using a centrifuge, but the number of these is comparatively small. 32569. If it is at all a doubtful'case you think it necessary to pass it through a guinea-pig?—Inoculation •of a guinea-pig is ah\ ays done. 32570. Miss McNeili,.—It may escape you by the microscopic test?—Certainly. I have mentione^l that in the 2,400 city stalls there were 127 cows with tuber- culous udders found in four years. On the assumption that we have not missed any, and that the proportion of outside cows with tuberculous udders is the same, I think what has happened is, we have found 75 out of 296 cows with tuberculous udders of the outside ones. I mean if the proportion of cows with tuberculous udders was the same among the outside stalls as the inside there ought to have been 296, and we have only found 75. I would suggest tiiat there is every reason to suppose that there are probably more tuberculous udders among outside cows, because the inspection is not so stringent. 32571. Sir Stewaijt Woodhouse.—A goodly number would escape detection?—Y'es. That shows what a comjiaratively small thing our outside inspection is. Lady Evehai!D.—More probably there is double the numbei'. 32572. Miss McNeill.—About the milk from these cows from the outside, where has it gone to, do you suppose?—It goes down the throats of the Sheffield citizens. Perhaps I might just mention this. I think we may take it a great many children consume cows' milk containing tuberculous bacilli without harm. 32573. Sir Stewart Woodhouse.—I was going to ask a question bearing on that. We have had it before us that tubercle bacilli were found in milk supplied by ten per cent, of the herds examined, which seems a large number, and from which we may infer that a good deal of the milk contains tubercle bacilli, perhaps in small quantities. I suppose you hold that many children acquire a limited amount of tuberculosis, luit that they outgrow it owing to their vitality?—Yes. I think there is no doubt about that. There is no doubt a large number of children get it. The per- centage is given tremendously high by some authorities. I should think also a number of children in good health swallow milk containing tubercle bacilli without it do- ing them any harm. The highest number of tubercu- lous udders we have ever found in the city stalls was 42 out of 2,400. That is a very high percentage, 42 cows with tuberculous udders in one year out of 2,400 stalls; 2,400 stalls might represent 3,000 cows. It is a very high percentage. 32574. It is over one per cent.?—You might take the average—127 cows over four years; that is 30. That is practically one per cent. That is over the period of four years, 30 tuberculous udders among 2,400 stalls. If you call it 3,000 cows you get somewhere about one per cent.—one per cent, of all cows, not tuberculous cows. It means that with a herd of 50 cows it is an even money chance whether the milk contains tuberculous bacilli or not. So there must be a very large amount of tuberculous milk consumed, tiiat is quite certain. 32575. Mr. Wilson.—About how large a percentage of the samples taken in Sheffield are—the normal market milk supply—found to be tuberculous?—From the outside? Mr. Llovd would tell you it is somewhere about ten per coit. 32.576. Miss McNeill.—Ho said roughly about ten per cent.?—Uoughly. One point I refer t<i on page 9 is that perhaps most of the children who suffer are children living inider very bad circumstances, and getting very little milk indeed. I give some results on page 9 of the amount of milk taken by poor families, and they probably bear out the contention, that if an infant is well fed and kei)t in good condition it has power to resist, but if an infant is run down and given living bacilli 32577. Mr. Wilson.—A plentiful supply of milk in its existing condition is more important than cleansing the existing milk and reducing the amount available?— I should say it is. I should say children suffer more from the want of milk than from the effects of milk. 32578. Miss McNeill.—That is our evidence?-That applies only to infants. There were 154 families which used ordinary cow's milk, consisting of 820 persons, including 50tj children under 10 years of age. The total milk consumed in the week was 1,070 pints, equal to about 26 ounces or 1 of a litre per head. Another inquiry by a different investigator, made in one of the poorest districts in Sheffield, showed that 43 families, consisting of 228 persons, and including 139 children, only spent in the aggregate 30s. per week on milk. I think my own family spen?l about half tliat, and they are only five strong. It works out at lid. per head per week, or an equivalent of one pint or four-sevenths of a litre of milk at the summer price. 32579. Lady ]']vEHAni).—Where does Sheffield get its supply from?—Chiefly from the West Hiding and from Derbyshire. We don't as a rule have milk come from a long way (nit. We have some from Hawes. That is about the farthest distance. They tell me they never had a tuberculous udder at Hawes. 32580. Where is Hawes?—Hawes is on the border of Y''orksliire and Westmoreland. I think the Hawes milk is put on the train somewhere about eight o'clock in the evening, and gets to Sheffield at four or five in the morning. 32581. It must be pasteiu'ised?—It would keep all right if it was got off just in time and properly cooled. 32582. Sir Stewart Woodhouse.—Is there much pasteurised milk used in Sheffield?—No. I should rather qualify that. Tliere is a considerable quantity of pasteurised milk supplied in connection with one of the co-operative dairies. They have a good plant, and have a large and increasing business springing up in pasteurised milk. 32583. Is the milk sold at a higher price than ordinary milk?—No; I think not: but it would be better for me to find out that. It is better that I should not give you guess-work, because it is quite easy for me to find out when I get back. It is rather easy for a co-operative society. They have got a lot of customers ready-made when they start dairying. The difficulty with an ordinary dairy is to get up sufficient custom to make it pay to do these things. I know Mr. Sorensen. who has a dairy at York. 32584. Mr. Wilson.—Is he still going on?—He is still going on. He had difficulty at first. Then the Danish Milk Supply Co. in Copenhagen—they got no ])rofit for a number of yeais until they got a certain turnover. 32585. Sir Stewart Woodhouse.—Is it from want of money or from ignorance that so many people in Sheffield fail to purchase an adequate supply of milk?— I think it is partly the idea that children after they are a year old need little milk. 32586. Do these under a year old get anything like an adequate supply?—I don't think there are many bottle-fed babies actually starved for want of milk. There may be a few getting some of the cheaper forms of condensed milk. 32587. Lady Everard.—Do you use milk powder?— We use milk powder a lot. We sell the milk powder— the dried milk. There was a Sanitary Committee inquiry into infant mortality, and one of the witnesses mentioned dried milk. As a result it was thought that we would try in the hot weather to supply dried milk to bottle-fed babies. We have several women inspec- tors. 32588. Miss McNeill.— I'nder supervision of your trained women inspectors?—Yes. That was tried. I don't know whether it did much to prevent diarrhoea, because only a few infants were fed on it. What we did find was that it was a milk easily digested, and that a lot of infants have taken to it at once. 32.589. Mr. Wilson.—What particular variety?—We liad several brands. 32590. Miss McNeill.—You saw it in various fatty transitions?—Yes, to a certain extent. We had milk from three or four companies. I think every doctor will agree that the difficidty about a baby with ordinary](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b21358485_1057.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
