[Reports and Appendices] of the Irish Milk Commission, 1911.

  • Great Britain. [Royal] Commission on the Irish Milk Supply.
Date:
1913
Catalogue details

Licence: In copyright

Credit: [Reports and Appendices] of the Irish Milk Commission, 1911. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

    1055/1108 (page 173)
    Mr. J. L. Smith.—13f/j December, lfll2. get u certain number of creameries that will work up to the very highest standard, and they have very careful inspection. One of the provisions is monthly analysis, and hitherto there has been supposed to be a monthly analysis of the water supply. You would have power to go into such a creamery and say, we want to see the analysis of your water, and suppose yon were not satisfied with it, you would have power to take action on the strength of that analysis got by a private body?—Over creameries as such the Local Government Board have no power of control. 82724. You have no legal power at present to go inside creamery premises except with the good-will of the owners?—Of course, there might be nuisances, but wo have no power to interfere with them in their •capacity as milk-producing or milk-jjreparing persons. 82725. The CHAiiiiux.—Do you ever raise any <]uestion about the (]ualifieations of veterinary inspectors?—No, if he is a registered veterinary surgeon. 82726. That is all you require?—AVe satisfy ourselves that he is on the register. 32727. Can you tell me from memory at the moment any place in a rural district in which a reasonable salary is paid to a veterinary inspector such as would enable him to efficiently discharge his duty. What is the maximum salary paid as far as you remember?— There is a case, I think, of a salary of i'200 in one of the Belfast districts. 82728. But is that an urban district?—No; Belfast Rural. And I think Mr. Mason in Rathdown gets about A'200 a year—between £150 and £'200. 82729. Mr. (VBrien.—Do you know what the lady vet. of Galway gets? Is she not a county official?—I •don't know. 32780. Do you think that you could get a whole- time officer for £200?—I believe the Belfast inspector has undertaken to devote his whole time, but that is an arrangement more or less come to since the Inquiry. 82731. The Chairman.—It is quite a modem one?— It is quite recent, but Mr. Mason has been recei'ving this salary for some time, but he is not a whole-time officer, I think. 32732. I know he is not a whole-time officer. He does a variety of work for the Department of Agricul- ture to my own knowledge. Would it be your opinion that it would be conducive to the harmonious adminis- tration of the Public Health Orders, and the supervision ■of the milk supply, to have these two branches of administration carried on under some coitral control? —I scarcely follow. 82738. What I have felt throughout is that the relations subsisting between public health questions and the milk supply question are so close that it would be extremely difficult to have the duties of the officers administering them divided—the one relating to public health alone, the other referring to the health of the dairy stock and the conditions under which they are kept—and I fear that if these were separately con- trolled it would lead to friction in administration and inefficiency thereby?—W>11, I may say in one or two instances we had rather awkward questions as to the mutual relations of the medical officer and the veterinary inspector. 32734. As to what is the duty of one and what of the other?—Ycs; we try to make a rough and ready dis- tribution. 82785. Is it a matter of difficulty?—There are some border line cases that are hard to decide. It must he a matter of mutual co-operation. If the two men are not inclined to co-operate it is very difficult. 32786. If the officers are working under different Boards would it not render the difficulty greater and the causes of friction more numerous?—Undoubtedly, there are possibilities of friction certainly. 32787. And in order to ensure efficient administra- tion you do think that it would be desirable that they should be controlled from a common source?—I think so. At present they are controlled centrally and locally by the same body. 32738. That is quite true, but I want you to take into your mind for a moment the fact that we propose in our Report to recommend going beyond the existing condition of things, and we think it would be necessary for some body to try and improve the milk yield of the cow. That would be a duty that would not come under your purview as a public health authority?—No. 82789. And that is one of the questions we have before our minds at the moment in which there would bo a possibility of overlapping or friction between officers who should be working for a common end or purpose, but who would be controlled by different administrative bodies, and who might possibly get at cross purposes, and friction might arise. Don't you think it desirable that our recommendation ought to obviate such a danger?—It all depends on how far you are goi'Ug to discriminate between what I may call the commercial function—the improvement of the volume of milk—and the public health function—the iuiproveniont of the quality of the milk. 82740. There is another aspect of the question as well—the question of tuberculosis in cattle. That is an administration that must be controlled by the veterinary branch of the Department of Agriculture?— I (juite agree. 82741. And, therefore, you see we have the possibility of a 'conflict arising between the administration of your Board and then- Board; the one saying that the administration of the Department has driven the milk suppliers in that district out of the trade, that they are unreasonable in their restrictions, and that the result is that milk becomes scarcer. If both of these questions were considered by the same authority, and considered concurrently—the etfect of the administra- tion of one branch upon the other—don't 3'ou think under these conditions there would be a more efficient control?—I don't think it is at all impossible to differentiate along reasonable lines between the public health function and the veterinary function. 82742. You think it is possible?—I don't think it is impossible. 32748. And you don't think any possibility of conflict would arise between the bodies?—Not if the lines of demarcation were laid down. 82744. I see the greatest possible difficulty in drawing a rigid line of demarcation?—Take the case of a tuberculous dairy cow; is that the point? 82745. That is one of the points. I don't suggest that it is by any means the only point, but I fiave suggested to you as a possibility of friction arising that it might be stated that the steps taken by the Department of Agriculture in the accomplishment of something that seemed desirable to them had had an adverse effect on the milk supply of the district, and the county medical officer of health might say these people are running away on a fad, with the result that they have driven people out of the trade, and no milk is available in the district ?—Speaking on behalf of the central public health body, I don't think that is a matter that concerns us. If it is the function of the Department of Agriculture to do certain things, I don't think that we should raise any questions because of the consequences of their actions. 32746. Then there is the question of overlapping in duties?—The point you put to me was the consequential effect of one department on the functions of another, and if the effect was to curtail the milk supply I don't know tliat we should be directly concerned in that. 82747. It would not be an indictable offence, I admit? —It would not be in any way an interference with the functions of the Local Government Board. 82748. Ijady Eveeahd.—Under Section 4 (5) of the General (Jrder of the Local Government Board the veterinary surgeon is bound to report to the Depart- ment of Agriculture if he observes any cow suffering from tuberculosis of the udder, or indurated udder, etc.?—I know that clause. It was introduced at the express wish of the Department. It was put in there because the Department asked to have it inserted. 32749. The Chairman.—On the other hand, I would like to uoint out that you at the present time recognise the appointment of veterinary surgeons in districts for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of the Order, and the control and improvement of the health of these animals as far as , possible. The Department might have in their mind some other scheme for accomplishing the same result by a different method, and would it be an economical administration to have one set of inspectors, which must be under the control of the Local Government Board, and another set of inspectors sent out by the veterinary branch of the Department of Agriculture, to carry out a different treatment or a different line of policy aiming at accomplishing the same thing ?—It certainly would not, but I take it that in practice that just as we have