[Reports and Appendices] of the Irish Milk Commission, 1911.
- Great Britain. [Royal] Commission on the Irish Milk Supply.
- Date:
- 1913
Licence: In copyright
Credit: [Reports and Appendices] of the Irish Milk Commission, 1911. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.
1056/1108 (page 174)
![communicatious from time to time with the Depart- ment on matters affecting the milk supply, they would in the same way refer to us. The clause that Lady Everard spoke about was put in to convenience the veterinary, branch, and is an instance of the co-nperation of the two Departments. 327o0. Lady Everakd.—I don't think that that clause has been very much observed?—Possibly not, but at any rate there it is. 32751. The Chaii!Ma\.—In the Minutes of the local governing bodies, when reports are received from veterinary inspectors, dealing with specific questions in their own area in which recommendations are made that certain things should be done by the local authority, and where no Order is made by the local Board in regard to these reports, does your Board ever send any remonstrance or protest against the local authority evading the recommendations of the veteri- nary inspector?—That is our regular practice. The directions on the reports are always watclicd to see whether the suggestions are carried out. 32752. How far have you been able to accomplish your purpose by these remonstrances?—If they are set on neglecting the recommendations of the veterinary inspector. I don't think our remonstrances carry very much weight. 32753. Do you persist in these cases, and is a further remonstrance sent on?—We follow the matter up to a certain point, but if it comes to a point when they say they won't do it, or mark our letter read, we have no power to carry it further. 32754. Don't you think it would be well that some one should have the power to carry it fiu'ther?—That was the point of the suggestion I made about furthei- powers of dealing with default. Certainly it would. 32755. The existing powers are obviously ineffective for the purpose of securing an effective administration of the Order?—That is when the Council does not wisli to do it. 32756. We have had abundant evidence that the Councils don't wish to do it. We have had it directly and indirectly. We know where they appoint a man at £20 to supervise a large area that they only want the thing done for the purpose, of saving them from incurring public odium and criticism from the Ijocal Government Board, and we know that that money is absolutely wasted, because the man can do nothing, and if he does make a recommendation they do nothing on his report?—Some form of default powers is needed. 32757. With regard to the application of the Widal test, is the right conferred on your authority to compel suspected persons to submit themselves to that test?— No. 32758. It is entirely permissive?—Yes. 32759. Have you over known a case _ in which a medical officer of health was anxious to have this test applied, and where the individual refused to submit? —I think as far as my memory goes that a case of that kind arose in connection with the Clontarf out- break. I know that we were very anxious to obtain bacteriological tests in that particular case. 32760. And you did not succeed?—No. There have been several cases in which we could not get a l)lood sample for examination. 32761. Does not the same rule apply with regard to obtaining swabs from the throats of those suffering from diphtheria?—Yes; there is no compulsory power. 32762. Have any representations ever been made by medical men to the Local Government Board that it would be desirable to have this power conferred on them?—I don't think we ever had a formal representa- tion. It is a delicate matter after all, involving the question of the liberty of the subject, and particularly in a case of suspicion. 32763. The liberty of the subject is interfered with very materially when you have contacts locked up?— There is no power to insist on it. 32764. That has been done repeatedly?—There is no power to do it in the absence of consent. The medical officer of health could be sued for unlawful detention. 32765. If there is no power there ought to be power? —You cannot compulsorily isolate contacts. There is a limited power imder certain circumstances to which I would like to refer here. '• Where the local authority in pursuance of the aforesaid powers have provided a temporary shelter or house accommodation, they may, on the appearance of any infectious disease in a'house, and on the certificate of the 7nedical officer, cause any person who is not himself siek. and who consents to leave the house, or wliose parent or guardian (where the person is a child) consents to his leaving the house, to be removed therefrom to any such temporary shelter or house accommodation, and in the like case on the like certificate may cause any such person who does not consent to leave the house to be removed therefrom to any such temporary shelter or house accommodation, where two justices, on the application of the local autliority, and on being satisfied of the necessity of the removal, make 'An order for the removal, subject to such conditions (if any) as are imposed by the order. 32766. Sir Stewakt Woodhouse.—Have you any power over a known typhoid carrier?—No. You cannot interfere with his liberty. He is not a person suffering from a dangerous infectious disease. 32767. Dr. Moorhead.—In Australia they lock him up. Mr. O'Brien.—There was also a case in America. Dr. Moorhead.—Is there any authority to prevent a dairy on which suspicion has fallen as the propagator of disease to prevent them supplying milk?—There is a section of the Infectious Diseases Prevention Act of 1890 which empowers a medical officer of health, when he has grounds for believing that infectious disease is caused by milk from a certain dairy, to go and inspect it. If the dairy is in an outside district, he has to get a magistrate's certificate. He then examines the dairy, and ho can examine the cows if he has a veteri- nary surgeon with him. The point that I would lilcc to bring before the Commission arises hero : if, on such inspection, the medical officer of health is of opinion that infectious disease is caused from consump- tion of milk su])plied therefrom, he is required to make a report. 32768. It is the local authority that has to issue the Order for closing the dairy?—Yes. In practice, the trouble has arisen from the phrase on such inspec- tion. The local authorities have been advised that these are limiting words—that the evidence on which the medical officer's report is given must be derived from facts obtained on the occasion of his inspection. Therefore, if there happened to be a typhoid carrier, you cannot ascertain that fact on the inspection, and the result is that you have got no legal power to close the dairy up, although you may have every moral con- viction that the milk is contaminated. 32769. Mr. O'Brien.—Practically, that makes the Act a dead letter?—It is very hard to get over these words on sucli inspection. Tliey have limited the effect very much. 32770. Was that a matter that was threshed out when the Act was being passed?—I don't suppose thi'v over foresaw the consequences. 32771. It is a point that might be amended?—I think so. I think these words should be omitted, or made to read— after such inspection. 32772. The Chair.man.—Has any application ever been made to the Local Ciovernment Board by the local authority for permission to subsidise a milk supply, or to incur any expenditure of rates for the purpose of improving or increasing the milk supplv to the poor in the district over which they preside?— I don't know whether there was a serious application. There was a case of tw^o District Councils iji Clare— one of which proposed to supply an acre for the labourer to feed his cow on, and the other proposed to provide the labourer with a cow. 32773. That is not exactly the idea I have in my mind. We did learn that in Liverpool at the present time a scheme is in existence whereby charges are made on the local rates foi- the purpose of cheapening the milk supply to the poor. Is it recognised that in Ireland a local authority has power to carry out such a scheme?—No. At the time of the Tuberculosis Bill it was discussed whether what was known as the XA'oolwich Clause should be inserted. That was a clause included in a local Woolwich Act of 1905; but it was decided that it should not be included in the Tubercu- losis Bill. I don't know whether there arc many Fm<jlish towns that have it, but there was this Wooi- wich precedent for these powers of establishing a nnmicipal milk depot. 32774. I don't know that we got from the gentlemen who were befoi'e us from Liverpool whether these powers wore conferred under a local Act or not. We also had evidence to show that a similar custom had pre- vailed in Glasgow up to a certain period. Is it you' opinion that no such power exists under the .\cts con- trolling local admini.itratiou in Ireland?—T am quite](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b21358485_1066.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
