BSE, the cost of a crisis : thirty-fourth report, together with the proceedings of the Committee relating to the report, the minutes of evidence and appendices / Committee of Public Accounts.

  • Public Accounts Committee
Date:
1999
Catalogue details

Licence: Open Government Licence

Credit: BSE, the cost of a crisis : thirty-fourth report, together with the proceedings of the Committee relating to the report, the minutes of evidence and appendices / Committee of Public Accounts. Source: Wellcome Collection.

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    [Mr Twigg Cont] 208. Was that just given to them because there was no competition? (Mr Trevelyan) That contract, I would have to advise you on whether the blood meal contract was let competitively, but it would certainly be part of the rendering process as a whole. 209. But you are not sure? (Mr Trevelyan) I would have to get you that information as to whether that was separately done. 210. Even though there is no competition? (Mr Trevelyan) There is competition for the whole rendering process. 211. For this specific product? (Mr Trevelyan) 1 would have to get you that information. 212. Can I move to a question to you both. As the accounting officer for the Board, what is the main objective set for you? What is written down for you as your objective? (Mr Trevelyan) Ihave a number of objectives 213. As an accounting officer. (Mr _ Trevelyan) as an accounting officer, which are regularity and propriety in _ public expenditure, which are my principal concerns. 214. Do you think you have met those objectives in this case? (Mr Trevelyan) We have taken every step possible to ensure regularity of payments, which the National Audit Office acknowledges, and I do not believe there is any evidence of impropriety in terms of payments. 215. Permanent Secretary, could you tell us what your objectives are as an accounting officer? (Mr Packer) 1 would add one thing to what Mr Trevelyan has said, so regularity, propriety and value for money. 216. Do you think we have got that in this situation? (Mr Packer) We have got regularity and propriety. I have made a number of remarks about value for money as we have gone through. If there had not been a crisis, no doubt better value for money would have been obtained, but we are dealing here with the circumstances at the time. 217. So value for money would change depending on the circumstances and your objectives take account of that? (Mr Packer) I think objectives are obviously related to circumstances, yes. 218. Value for money as well? (Mr Packer) The objective of achieving value for money is independent of circumstances and the degree to which it can be achieved is obviously dependent on the circumstances, and that must be a truism. Mr Williams 219. I have one final question before we go into closed session. What actions does each of you have to take before exports can now recommence? (Mr Packer) I think that is a matter for me, Chairman. Of course in the case of the Export Certified Herd Scheme, which is limited to Northern Ireland, exports are taking place already. I think you are referring to the Date-Based Export Scheme where we have to finish the voluntary cull, we have to finish the maternal cull of animals, and then there has to be a further Commission inspection of the systems in place. At the same time domestically we have to put in place the controls on the appropriate slaughterhouses that will be dealing with Date-Based Export Scheme material, so there is a significant bureaucratic process which will take some months. 220. And some months is your best estimate? When you say “some”, how broad is “some”? (Mr Packer) I think we are talking about spring or late spring 1999. (Mr Trevelyan) Could I just make one point? I hesitated on the question of blood meal as to whether it had been let through the same competitive tendering as meat and bone meal and the answer to that is affirmative, that it was, so it was at the same price and there was the same competition. Mr Williams: Thank you, gentlemen. [EVIDENCE TAKEN IN PRIVATE] - Mr Page 221. I would just like to ask one or two quick questions. The first thing is Fibrogen—is that a company which was already in receipt of a current NOFFO contract? (Mr Trevelyan) Yes. 222. And, therefore, in going down this route, you absolved them of their contract to supply NOFFO, the non-fossil fuel (Mr Trevelyan) of this year. 223. It will expire at the end of this year? (Mr Trevelyan) As I understand it, their deal with NOFFO. NOFFO provides a higher price for electricity generated from fuels of an approved source and that is an arrangement which, as far as Fibrogen is concerned, came to an end at the end of this year. Their contract expires at the end 224. So now that you are putting a different product through, was and is any subsidy being given to Fibrogen for them to feed the National Grid? (Mr Trevelyan) No. 225. So they are in open market competition in supplying the Grid? (Mr Trevelyan) Yes. Mr Wardle 226. I realise time is short and I should declare what I think Mr Page was declaring, a past involvement with the DTI and the administration of NOFFO in past years. What is the net worth of Fibrogen, C&AG? What are the net tangible assets of Fibrogen? If you cannot answer straightaway, that tells