Minutes of evidence taken by the Royal Commissioners appointed to consider the draft charter for the proposed Gresham University in London ... / presented to both Houses of Parliament by command of Her Majesty.
- Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons.
- Date:
- 1894
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Minutes of evidence taken by the Royal Commissioners appointed to consider the draft charter for the proposed Gresham University in London ... / presented to both Houses of Parliament by command of Her Majesty. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by Royal College of Physicians, London. The original may be consulted at Royal College of Physicians, London.
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![which you would wish to give an opinion upon ?—No, think not 16. You have no practical recommendation to make I sup] ose ?—No. 17. {Lord Beay.) You would be in favour of the creation of a Faculty of Science ?—Certainly. 18. And you would also be in favour of a Board of Studies ?—Yes. 19. Appointed by the Faculty of Science V—Certainly. 20. Would you also be in favour of an examination which should test the proficiency of students to attend the higher teaching which would obviously be given in such a Faculty of Science ?—A primary examination or a final examination, do you mean ? 21. An entrance examination ?—No, I do not know that I should. I am not quite clear that I should re- commend anything in the nature of a matriculation examination, if that is what you mean. 22 That is what I mean. Then how would you regulate the admission of students to the lectures of the professors ? What guarantees would you require for the previous knowledge obtained by students, qualifying them to derive benefit from the lectures?—No other guarantees than we have at the Eoyal College of Science where we profess to give, for example, the highest instruction in chemistry. 23. There is no guarantee for the attainment of any previous general culture ?—No, none whatever. 24. Therefore they are admitted to the teaching of specific subjects without any testing of their previous education ?—Not any direct testing, but as a matter of fact at the Eoyal College of Science we require the intending student to lodge with the Begistrar a state- ment—and a pretty detailed statement, too—of his previous course of instruction, the training he has had, the schools he has been at, the subjects he has taken up, and any honours or degrees he has acquired ; and, if it is obvious on the face of that statement that the boy is not fitted to come, we do not admit him. But that is the only test we impose. 25. You discourage the attendance of those whom you do not think well qualified p—Certainly. 26. How do you think the professors of a teaching University for London should be appointed P—Ulti- mately. I suppose they should be appointed by a body in which the professors should have a very considerable say. Of course if you ask me how in the outset such professors should be appointed, that is to say, suppos- ing you are creating the University that I contem- plate, that is another question. But eventually I think the professors ought to be appointed in the University practically by the University. The University should be not, of course, exclusively, but very largely, in the hands of the professorial body. 27. Largely but not entirely ?—Yes, largely but not entirely. 28. You would admit an outside element ?—Certainly, it is very desirable to have that. 29. What amount of influence are you prepared to give to what is called in Scotch universities the extra- mural element?—I would encourage that. I would recognise the work done by extra-mural teaching. I should very much like to see a body of teachers con- nected with the University like the privat-docenten in a German University. 30 With regard to the leading difference between the German system and tbe French system, of which you are perhaps aware, in the German Universities they exhaust the various curricula of scientific teaching ; they go as far as you can go. In France they have special institutions for the higher teaching. Would you be in favour of the new London University absorbing the whole of the teaching, and also research, or would you be in favour of making a division and having special institutions as they do in France ?—I have no practical knowledge of the French system. I am, however, a German student, that is, I have been educated at two German Universities, and I have some little knowledge of their procedure. I should like to see much that there is in the German system in this new University. There are many things in the German system which, I think, might be very advantageously incorporated in the new'University system. 31. Would you like to secure to the professors and students manifold opportunities for research ?—Cer- tainly. 32. (Professor Sidgwick.) Leaving, as I think we may, on one side the relation of the new teaching University to the present Examining Board, I should like to ask you how far you think the Boyal College of Science should form a part of the new teaching University, and Avhat in your view would be best on the one hand for the interests of the University, and on the other hand for the interests of the Department ?—The fusion of the Boyal College of Science into any such scheme as may be contemplated would have veiy considerable difficulties. 33. Would you first state the advantages to the two sides, and the drawbacks afterwards. I will first ask you if you do see any advantages ?—Certainly in the interests of education generally I do see some advan- tages. It would be no doubt a very considerable advantage, especially to the higher instruction, that the prospective graduate or student of the University should have the opportunity of working in such laboratories as we have, and as we hope to have, in association with the Boyal College of Science ; and he would also have the opportunity of familiarising himself with the scientific collections which we have in connexion with the Boyal College of Science, which are very large and important. 34. If I understand you, you think it is not practically possible to have equally well-equipped laboratories and museums for the new University. You think that to have two institutions in London, as well equipped for the higher teaching and research as the Boyal College of Science, is now. You think that to re-duplicate the apparatus is not, perhaps, desirable, and is not, at any rate, practicable. Is that your view ?—There would be nothing impracticable about it. It would be a mere question of cost. 35. The cost would be very great ?—The cost would be very great, and as regards the museum I should think it would be practically impossible for the Univer- sity ever to hope to have such a collection as we have. 36. That is an advantage from the point of view of the University, that it would obtain access to a museum and apparatus which it cannot hope to gain otherwise ? —That is one great advantage. 37. Is there any other advantage from that point of view ?—No, I do not know that there is any other special advantage. There need not be the slightest doubt that any teacher of university rank would teach his science, chemistry, for example, quite as effectively as I do. 38. I may refer, perhaps, to a book written by Professor Pearson, in which he says that the Boyal College of Science, South Kensington, is a useful insti- tution, but with non-academic aims. I want to ask you this : assuming the Department to have certain aims, which I will not call non-academic, but which are not prima facie academic, do you think that with a view to the realisation of those aims it would gain from being connected with the University in any way ? I do not quite understand the phrase non-academic aims as applied to our place, because if you test us by our results, we can show that we do quite as much as any existing London college in realising those academic aims, at least as regards science. For example, our men frequently present themselves to the only test of an academic kind which is open to them, namely, the examinations of the existing University of London. A considerable proportion of our men not only pass these examinations but pass them with distinction. 39. If you will allow me, I will change the form of the question. As engaged in working in the Depart- ment, do you see any advantages, from the point of view of your own work, in the association with the new University, or are the advantages that you see only in the interests of the new University ?—Looking at it entirely from my own point of view, I do not know that as a teacher of chemistry I should be in any way bettered, and I cannot see that my students, except indirectly, would be very much bettered, by the asso- ciation of the Boyal College of Science with the University. 40. The work would go on as before, neither better nor worse ?—Precisely. 41. There would be no difference ?—There would bo no difference. 42. I believe that the work on which you are engaged consists of two parts, teaching, and an elaborate organi-](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b24749436_0014.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
