Minutes of evidence taken by the Royal Commissioners appointed to consider the draft charter for the proposed Gresham University in London ... / presented to both Houses of Parliament by command of Her Majesty.
- House of Commons
- Date:
- 1894
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Minutes of evidence taken by the Royal Commissioners appointed to consider the draft charter for the proposed Gresham University in London ... / presented to both Houses of Parliament by command of Her Majesty. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by Royal College of Physicians, London. The original may be consulted at Royal College of Physicians, London.
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![f oliow. If I may put it again, it seems to me that we should be giving up the unvarying standard of our degree, and should possibly get a varying and lower one, without getting the advantages which are con- ferred by residence, as at Oxford and Cambridge. 725. (Sir William Savory.) With regard to the con- stitution of the University of London, how many graduates are there altogether ?—I really do not know. 726. Tou have mentioned the number of members of Convocation as 3,354. You could not tell us the total number of graduates ?—No. I applied to the Registrar for the register, but he has not sent it to me. 727. When Convocation rejected the scheme of the Senate, do you know how many were present ?—733. 728. And do you know how the numbers were, the majority and the minority?—461 and 197. 729. So I suppose we may take it that there is a great deal of difference amongst the graduates of London University with respect to that particular scheme, the majority rejected it, but there is a great deal of difference of opinion ?—Undoubtedly there is a great deal of differ- ence. 730. But the Senate and Convocation are agreed in this, that the modification of the London University which would meet the requirements of a new teaching University would be quite practicable. They differ on the details of carrying it out, but they agree on the principle that it might be so modified as to meet the new view?—Yes, I think the majority of Convocation think it possible. 731. The Senate has propounded a scheme, has it not ? —Yes, the Senate has. 732. And Convocation has also a scheme practically settled ?—It was only a scheme as a basis for negotia- tion. 733. But enough to show that in their opinion the thing was practicable ?—Yes. 734. And with regard to many of the objections which have been taken to-day to the London University those objections miedit be easily met, without altering the scheme at all. For instance, with regard to the lack of teachers on the Senate, it would be quite easy with- out altering the constitution in regard to the apjioint- ment of the Senate to have teachers much more largely represented?—Yes, it would. 735. So that many of the avowed defects of the London University at the present day rathe]- spring from what may be called the direction and management of the University than from any inherent vice in its con- stitution ?—Yes, I think that is so. 736. I suppose we may say, without disrespect to the Senate, that they have largely lost touch with the teaching bodies, and that for want of some intermediate body there has been a lack of communication and inter- course between the Senate and the teachers. Would you admit as much as that ?—Well, I should hardly like to admit it in the face of the evidence given before the late Commission. The Senate were in constant com- munication with the teachers, and received suggestions from them, not only when applied to, but also volun- tarily. 737. Allowing that point to be doubtful, if there were truth in that suggestion at all events it might be remedied by the reconstitution of the Senate ?—Easily. 738. I suppose one difficulty that all would feel in adapting the London University to the new views would be that there would be a great danger in lowering the standard of the examinations?—Yes. 739. And upon that point Convocation is, if I may veuture to say so, properly very jealous ?—Yes. 740. The character of the University has been in times past very high, and all who are connected with it would be very sorry to see anything like a degradation of its present examinations?—Convocation feels that there is nothing bub the standard. There are no his- torical associations and no endowments. There is nothing but the standard, and Convocation is also gratified to find that graduates who have taken high honours in other and older Universities come for our degrees afterwards, simply for the title. 741. Stxpposing the London University should fail to adapt itself to the new view, and a new University were constituted, would the danger of having alower standard of examination bo less in a new University than in the old. Is there any reason why a new University in adapt- ing itself to the present demands should keep up the E. H. Busk, character of examinations more than the London Uni- Esq., M.A., versity?—No ; I should say the reverse. LL.B. 742. That whatever difficulty there might be in the «, T ~ London University at present, the same difiiculty must e exist in a new University, and that many of the objections are founded upon a suspicion that there might be a lower standard of examination required ?—Yes, that is so. 743. And do you think that the lower standard of examination would be likely to be assisted by teachers examining their own men ?—I must confess that that is my own opinion. 744. And you think that this opinion would be largely shared by teachers and examiners, that when a teacher examines his own men there is a danger of the standard of examination being somewhat lower ?—I would rather put it generally, and say not one teacher examining his own men, but when it is the system for teachers to examine their own pupils I think it would be so. 745. You were asked a question with regard to the examinations, which was put in this form, I think it was the Bishop who put the question, one examiner to be appointed by the University, and. one to be a teacher. Was not a question to that effect asked ycu ?—I think a question was asked to that effect upon the Gresham Charter, which so provides. 746. Assuming it to be put in that way, are those two appointments to be put in antithesis ?—if it is the ques- tion I am thinking of, my answer was, that the external examiner would be appointed by the very teachers of the colleges also, and would be likely to be a teacher him- self. 747. But in the list of examiners who have been ap- pointed by the University, have they not generally been men who, either at that time were, or previously had been, teachers ?—Teachers by profession, you mean ? 748. Yes?—Yes. 749. Or, at all events, as one part of their duty ?—Yes. 750. I suppose you would agree that it would be a defect in an examiner if he neither were at the time nor had been a teacher ?—Yes, I think it would be.. 751. It would be better for an examiner that he had been a teacher and was fully acquainted with the mode in which the subject was taught ?—Yes. 752. But would it enhance very much his qualifi- cations as an examiner if he were a teacher at the actual moment that he examined. If he had been a teacher for several years previously, might not this additional ex- perience outweigh whatever loss might come if he were not a teacher at the moment ?—I should think it might be preferable that he was not a teacher at the moment. 753. So far as the great functions of the London University are concerned, the examinations have been conducted substantially by men who either were at the time or previously had been teachers ? —Yes. 754. But that is a different thing from a teacher ex- amining his own men ?—I think all the difference in the world. 755. Yoit think that there is a decided objection to the teacher examining his own men ?—-Yes. 756. And apart from whatever objection might come of that to the plan of the examination, there would be a further objection in the guarantee which such an examination would give to the public as to the qualifi- cation, in the case of a doctor, to practice ?—Yes, that would lie a very practical question—the qualification conferred by the degree. 757. You think the public would appreciate more the guarantee of a qualification from an examination con- ducted by an independent man, than an opinion given by a man's own teacher?—That is my experience. 758. As it has been put lately, it would be auditing one's own accounts ?—Yes. I think that among all the people with whom I have conversed upon this subject, the different character of the degree of the London University is perfectly well known, not only among my colleagues but throughout the public generally. 759. You were just asked by Professor Rimsay whether if an independent examiner examined, the examination would not be controlled and cramped. Do you think it is more likely to be controlled and cramped when it is conducted by the teacher, or when it is con-](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b24749436_0041.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
